1 00:01:15,408 --> 00:01:17,844 [CAR APPROACHING] 2 00:01:41,167 --> 00:01:44,704 [HESITANT NOTES ON PIANO] 3 00:02:23,610 --> 00:02:25,211 [GLASSWARE CLATTERING] 4 00:02:26,479 --> 00:02:28,480 I'm late, I know. 5 00:02:31,818 --> 00:02:32,919 Huh. 6 00:02:32,952 --> 00:02:34,788 Did anyone call? 7 00:02:34,821 --> 00:02:36,256 ANTHONY: No. 8 00:02:36,322 --> 00:02:37,691 JUDY: Kendra didn't call? 9 00:02:37,757 --> 00:02:39,325 ANTHONY: No. No one. 10 00:02:42,996 --> 00:02:44,230 That's good. 11 00:02:45,832 --> 00:02:47,670 [SIGHS] 12 00:02:48,401 --> 00:02:50,770 My son had a game this morning, 13 00:02:50,804 --> 00:02:52,539 and he wanted me to wait for his dad to get there, 14 00:02:52,572 --> 00:02:56,443 and then I got caught in some traffic or an accident... 15 00:02:56,509 --> 00:02:57,977 You got in an accident? 16 00:02:58,110 --> 00:02:59,946 [PIANO CONTINUES PLAYING] 17 00:02:59,979 --> 00:03:04,284 What? No, I got stuck in the traffic of an accident. 18 00:03:04,351 --> 00:03:06,860 [SIGHING DEEPLY] 19 00:03:06,119 --> 00:03:07,220 [WATER RUNNING] 20 00:03:07,253 --> 00:03:08,922 What are you doing? 21 00:03:08,955 --> 00:03:09,989 ANTHONY: Dishes. 22 00:03:11,358 --> 00:03:15,295 Okay. Well, can you come help me set up? 23 00:03:15,362 --> 00:03:16,563 ANTHONY: What do we need to set up? 24 00:03:16,596 --> 00:03:18,531 The room, for the meeting. 25 00:03:20,467 --> 00:03:22,168 Why are you doing dishes? 26 00:03:22,235 --> 00:03:24,370 ANTHONY: No one cleaned up from this morning. 27 00:03:25,739 --> 00:03:27,240 JUDY: Oh, I'm so sorry. 28 00:03:27,273 --> 00:03:29,275 That's very responsible of you to... 29 00:03:29,309 --> 00:03:32,450 Yeah. We got to tell them to clean up after themselves. 30 00:03:32,112 --> 00:03:34,748 I... I definitely did tell them that. 31 00:03:34,814 --> 00:03:36,583 What... Who was it? AA? 32 00:03:36,616 --> 00:03:39,686 No, Al-Anon. AA cleans up after themselves. 33 00:03:41,388 --> 00:03:44,758 Okay. Well, can you, uh... 34 00:03:44,824 --> 00:03:46,192 How about you do that a little bit later 35 00:03:46,259 --> 00:03:47,460 and what... You wanna come help me set up this room? 36 00:03:47,494 --> 00:03:50,463 I wanna set it up before Kendra gets here. 37 00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:58,271 [SWITCH CLICKS] 38 00:04:02,308 --> 00:04:03,309 [JUDY SIGHS] 39 00:04:05,178 --> 00:04:06,846 Okay. [SNIFFLES] 40 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:08,615 Here. Help me pull out this table. 41 00:04:10,483 --> 00:04:12,419 Okay. 42 00:04:12,452 --> 00:04:14,421 Oh, careful. Careful, careful. 43 00:04:20,593 --> 00:04:21,861 Oh, sorry. [CHUCKLES] 44 00:04:27,167 --> 00:04:28,902 Let's see. Center it a little more. 45 00:04:30,670 --> 00:04:32,105 Okay. 46 00:04:35,675 --> 00:04:36,676 [CAR HONKS] 47 00:04:41,748 --> 00:04:44,351 [VEHICLE ENGINE RUMBLES] 48 00:04:47,554 --> 00:04:49,789 [PHONE RINGING] 49 00:04:51,491 --> 00:04:54,127 [PHONE CONTINUES RINGING] 50 00:05:03,837 --> 00:05:05,772 JUDY: Hi. 51 00:05:05,805 --> 00:05:07,140 Hello. Hi. 52 00:05:07,207 --> 00:05:08,408 - Judy? - Yes. 53 00:05:08,475 --> 00:05:09,542 Kendra Carter. Pleasure. 54 00:05:09,576 --> 00:05:11,811 [KENDRA AND JUDY SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY] 55 00:05:11,845 --> 00:05:13,913 [PIANO PLAYING] 56 00:05:24,958 --> 00:05:26,393 Well, this is very nice. 57 00:05:27,694 --> 00:05:29,996 Thank you so much. We think so too. 58 00:05:30,630 --> 00:05:31,564 [LAUGHS NERVOUSLY] 59 00:05:31,598 --> 00:05:33,733 Most people just drive north to St. Thomas these days, 60 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,238 but we find plenty to do here. 61 00:05:38,271 --> 00:05:39,973 So where will they be meeting? 62 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,575 Oh. Um, right. I'm sorry. 63 00:05:42,609 --> 00:05:43,843 I'm taking too long. 64 00:05:43,877 --> 00:05:45,145 Sorry. I don't mean to be rude, I just... 65 00:05:45,178 --> 00:05:46,279 No, no, no, you're not being rude. This is... 66 00:05:46,312 --> 00:05:47,180 That's a really wonderful question. 67 00:05:47,247 --> 00:05:48,548 They're in a room downstairs. 68 00:05:48,581 --> 00:05:49,949 Here, follow me. 69 00:05:49,983 --> 00:05:53,687 [PIANO PLAYING CONTINUES] 70 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,422 JUDY: We usually have meetings down here, 71 00:05:55,455 --> 00:05:56,690 but the reverend thought 72 00:05:56,723 --> 00:05:58,992 they might need a little more privacy, 73 00:05:59,250 --> 00:06:00,894 so we're gonna put them in the back. 74 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,295 Well, if you think it's best. 75 00:06:02,328 --> 00:06:03,863 I do. I do. 76 00:06:03,897 --> 00:06:06,700 I think it's lighter, it has better... 77 00:06:06,733 --> 00:06:07,834 You know, it's nicer. 78 00:06:07,867 --> 00:06:09,569 And Linda approved it? 79 00:06:09,602 --> 00:06:11,137 I've never actually met Linda. 80 00:06:11,171 --> 00:06:13,600 She's not a parishioner here. So... 81 00:06:13,390 --> 00:06:14,774 But she's seen it? 82 00:06:14,841 --> 00:06:17,844 Um, well, she met with the reverend here privately, 83 00:06:17,877 --> 00:06:18,912 uh, several times. 84 00:06:18,978 --> 00:06:20,580 So I'm assuming that she did. 85 00:06:22,482 --> 00:06:24,317 - KENDRA: Uh... - Oh. 86 00:06:24,351 --> 00:06:26,486 Will we hear this music back there? 87 00:06:26,553 --> 00:06:29,723 Oh, shoot. Yeah, that's a problem. 88 00:06:29,756 --> 00:06:31,858 It might be. Can they stop? 89 00:06:31,891 --> 00:06:33,460 Uh, they have lessons today. 90 00:06:33,493 --> 00:06:35,280 Can't we just close the doors? 91 00:06:35,610 --> 00:06:36,496 I don't want it to be a distraction. 92 00:06:36,563 --> 00:06:37,630 You know what? I'm gonna talk to them. 93 00:06:37,664 --> 00:06:38,932 - It'll be fine. - Thank you. 94 00:06:38,998 --> 00:06:40,500 Absolutely. Uh, do you want to see the room? 95 00:06:40,567 --> 00:06:41,935 - Yes, please. - Okay. 96 00:06:51,177 --> 00:06:52,912 What do you think? 97 00:06:53,913 --> 00:06:55,448 It's better back here. 98 00:06:55,482 --> 00:06:57,650 Oh, right. 99 00:06:57,684 --> 00:07:01,488 Sorry. I was told no one would be in the building is all. 100 00:07:01,521 --> 00:07:03,523 Oh, yeah. Um, I'm sorry. 101 00:07:03,590 --> 00:07:05,525 We usually have them practice down here. 102 00:07:05,592 --> 00:07:07,927 But they're... We moved them to the church. 103 00:07:07,961 --> 00:07:10,663 Okay, so will anyone else be in here? 104 00:07:10,697 --> 00:07:12,232 The choir's rehearsing for tomorrow. 105 00:07:12,265 --> 00:07:15,368 Oh, right. I'm so sorry that I moved the chairs. 106 00:07:15,402 --> 00:07:16,836 Oh, no, it's fine. 107 00:07:16,903 --> 00:07:19,539 But they're rehearsing up in the church though? 108 00:07:20,774 --> 00:07:22,420 Yeah. 109 00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:23,376 That should be fine. 110 00:07:24,477 --> 00:07:27,113 Anthony, can you, um, go downstairs 111 00:07:27,180 --> 00:07:29,115 and get the snacks that I brought and bring them up 112 00:07:29,182 --> 00:07:31,384 and set them up on the far table over there? 113 00:07:31,851 --> 00:07:32,919 Thank you. 114 00:07:37,357 --> 00:07:38,858 But the room's okay? 115 00:07:38,925 --> 00:07:40,560 KENDRA: I think so. 116 00:07:40,627 --> 00:07:42,696 Great. 117 00:07:42,729 --> 00:07:46,399 We got some bagels and some water and, um, coffee. 118 00:07:46,433 --> 00:07:47,967 I'm gonna make some great coffee. 119 00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:49,269 That's a nice idea. 120 00:07:49,302 --> 00:07:53,373 Okay. Um, and the... Sorry about the chairs, 121 00:07:53,406 --> 00:07:55,942 - but the table is okay? - The table? 122 00:07:55,975 --> 00:07:57,977 The placement of the table is good for you? 123 00:07:58,110 --> 00:07:59,145 - It's fine. - For the...? 124 00:07:59,212 --> 00:08:02,415 Okay. Great. 125 00:08:02,449 --> 00:08:03,683 That's great. 126 00:08:04,651 --> 00:08:06,119 Placement of the table's great. 127 00:08:06,152 --> 00:08:08,588 Do you have tissues? Like a tissue box? 128 00:08:08,655 --> 00:08:10,290 Yeah, we have some right over here. 129 00:08:10,323 --> 00:08:11,991 That's a really great idea. Of course. 130 00:08:12,250 --> 00:08:15,161 All right. Now we're getting somewhere. Um... 131 00:08:15,228 --> 00:08:17,397 How many people are coming, again? 132 00:08:17,430 --> 00:08:20,266 - JUDY: Why? - There'll be four of them. 133 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:23,360 You got, like, a lot of food. 134 00:08:23,103 --> 00:08:25,238 I don't think they'll be eating. 135 00:08:25,271 --> 00:08:28,800 - Oh, I'm sorry. I thought... - What's this? 136 00:08:28,410 --> 00:08:31,440 That's my lunch. You can put that away. Um... 137 00:08:31,111 --> 00:08:33,313 Sorry. I thought that I should have some food. 138 00:08:33,346 --> 00:08:35,348 Yeah, no, no. It's a really nice thought. 139 00:08:35,415 --> 00:08:38,985 I just... I don't think we need to put all of that out. 140 00:08:39,190 --> 00:08:41,321 - It's... We shouldn't. - JUDY: Right. 141 00:08:41,354 --> 00:08:42,989 Right. Okay. 142 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:44,691 So how long have you worked with the families? 143 00:08:44,724 --> 00:08:46,426 - Anthony. That... - What? 144 00:08:46,459 --> 00:08:48,161 KENDRA: That's okay. 145 00:08:48,194 --> 00:08:49,896 Just the one family. 146 00:08:49,929 --> 00:08:52,599 But six years now. 147 00:08:52,632 --> 00:08:53,900 - Wow. - Oh, wow. 148 00:08:55,735 --> 00:08:58,138 Were you working with the family before the...? 149 00:08:58,171 --> 00:09:00,740 No, no, no. It's how we met. 150 00:09:00,774 --> 00:09:02,942 - Can we move these? - JUDY: Yes, absolutely. 151 00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:05,912 - Thank you. - Have they done this before? 152 00:09:05,945 --> 00:09:08,214 Anthony, that's none of our business. 153 00:09:08,281 --> 00:09:10,350 Have you printed out for tomorrow? 154 00:09:10,383 --> 00:09:11,451 - I did. - Okay, 155 00:09:11,484 --> 00:09:12,619 did you fold for tomorrow? 156 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,629 - Sorry about him. - No, he's fine. 157 00:09:22,662 --> 00:09:25,310 We were gonna give him the day off, 158 00:09:25,650 --> 00:09:26,499 but then his family, they really need to keep him busy. 159 00:09:26,533 --> 00:09:27,834 You don't need to explain. 160 00:09:27,901 --> 00:09:29,636 Okay, that's good of you. 161 00:09:29,669 --> 00:09:32,672 I mean, he's really sweet, most of the time. [CHUCKLES] 162 00:09:32,739 --> 00:09:36,309 But he's not your typical, uh, church employee. 163 00:09:36,343 --> 00:09:38,945 But then again, we are Episcopalian. [LAUGHS] 164 00:09:38,978 --> 00:09:41,114 Sorry, that's just a little Christian humor. 165 00:09:41,181 --> 00:09:42,782 Oh, no, don't put it in the center. 166 00:09:42,816 --> 00:09:45,850 - Oh. - It looks freaky. 167 00:09:45,118 --> 00:09:47,487 Uh, put it to the side or maybe back over there, 168 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:48,955 so they see it, but you know... 169 00:09:51,191 --> 00:09:52,959 Right. I'm sorry. Of course. 170 00:09:55,428 --> 00:09:58,865 So where...? Are you gonna be doing all of this 171 00:09:58,932 --> 00:10:00,333 in here with them or...? 172 00:10:00,367 --> 00:10:04,404 KENDRA: No, they've, uh, they've agreed to be alone. 173 00:10:04,437 --> 00:10:07,240 Well, um, you can come hang with us. 174 00:10:07,273 --> 00:10:09,843 We're, um... We have a lot of room 175 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:12,812 and we have great Wi-Fi. 176 00:10:12,846 --> 00:10:14,381 Um, I have a few calls I need to make 177 00:10:14,414 --> 00:10:16,116 so I'll probably just work from the car. 178 00:10:16,149 --> 00:10:19,252 JUDY: Oh, no, that's sad. You should stay with us. 179 00:10:19,285 --> 00:10:20,720 You can have the reverend's whole office. 180 00:10:20,787 --> 00:10:22,989 Oh, okay, we'll figure it out. 181 00:10:23,230 --> 00:10:24,124 - JUDY: Okay. - Um... 182 00:10:24,791 --> 00:10:26,993 What are these? 183 00:10:27,270 --> 00:10:29,863 Oh, yeah. Aren't those really neat? 184 00:10:29,896 --> 00:10:32,298 That was a school project. It's supposed to be 185 00:10:32,365 --> 00:10:34,100 stained glass. [CHUCKLES] 186 00:10:37,971 --> 00:10:39,406 Is there something wrong? 187 00:10:43,176 --> 00:10:44,277 Oh. 188 00:10:46,446 --> 00:10:47,447 Right. 189 00:10:48,314 --> 00:10:49,883 It's fine. You know what? 190 00:10:49,916 --> 00:10:52,585 I'm... I'm gonna step out and make a call. Okay? 191 00:10:52,619 --> 00:10:53,753 - Sure, yes. - Thanks. 192 00:10:53,820 --> 00:10:55,588 Yes, please. Take your time. 193 00:10:57,390 --> 00:10:59,392 - [DOOR CLOSES] - [SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING] 194 00:11:17,577 --> 00:11:20,914 Okay, that's it. Here we are. 195 00:11:20,947 --> 00:11:22,716 I know. Keep driving. 196 00:11:22,749 --> 00:11:24,317 What? 197 00:11:24,351 --> 00:11:26,353 Just... I'm not... Not now. 198 00:11:26,419 --> 00:11:27,587 I'm not ready yet. Just keep driving. 199 00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:28,655 I don't know where we are. 200 00:11:28,722 --> 00:11:30,957 Anywhere. Just go. Just drive. 201 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,426 Pull up around the corner there, over there somewhere. 202 00:11:33,460 --> 00:11:35,595 - Just go! - Okay. Okay. 203 00:11:39,650 --> 00:11:43,770 Hi, Linda. No problem. I'm here. Take your time. 204 00:11:43,803 --> 00:11:45,710 Have you spoken with Richard? 205 00:11:45,105 --> 00:11:47,107 [CONTINUES SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY] 206 00:12:10,697 --> 00:12:12,465 GAIL: What the hell are we doing here? 207 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:17,300 - Are you gonna be all right? - [GAIL SIGHS] 208 00:12:18,405 --> 00:12:19,773 Honey? 209 00:12:19,806 --> 00:12:20,940 I don't know. 210 00:12:23,410 --> 00:12:26,479 - Okay. - No, I don't know if I can... 211 00:12:28,148 --> 00:12:30,684 I don't know if I can do it. 212 00:12:33,953 --> 00:12:35,155 Well, we don't have to. 213 00:12:36,723 --> 00:12:38,992 We could just turn around and leave. 214 00:12:39,250 --> 00:12:40,393 [GAIL SIGHS] 215 00:12:40,427 --> 00:12:42,729 If that's what you want. 216 00:12:42,796 --> 00:12:44,564 No. 217 00:12:44,597 --> 00:12:47,434 I mean, I don't think I can say it. 218 00:12:51,705 --> 00:12:52,739 Okay. 219 00:12:52,806 --> 00:12:56,443 Well, you know, you don't have to. 220 00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:57,544 We could just go there 221 00:12:57,577 --> 00:13:00,113 and listen to what they have to say. 222 00:13:00,146 --> 00:13:02,549 You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. 223 00:13:03,717 --> 00:13:04,818 - All right? - [INHALES DEEPLY] 224 00:13:04,851 --> 00:13:06,619 If I don't, would you? 225 00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:11,324 I'm sorry. That's not fair. 226 00:13:11,391 --> 00:13:14,427 No, it's... You know, it's not... 227 00:13:21,401 --> 00:13:22,435 [GAIL SIGHS] 228 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,309 I wouldn't, but... 229 00:13:40,153 --> 00:13:42,355 [GAIL INHALES AND EXHALES DEEPLY] 230 00:14:01,775 --> 00:14:03,810 Come on. Are you ready to go back? 231 00:14:03,877 --> 00:14:04,911 [SIGHS] 232 00:14:06,379 --> 00:14:07,914 [CLEARS THROAT] Okay. 233 00:14:09,449 --> 00:14:10,450 All right. 234 00:14:16,890 --> 00:14:18,240 [GAIL SIGHS] 235 00:14:37,911 --> 00:14:41,348 [BEEPING] 236 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:47,420 [KENDRA SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY] 237 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,496 Absolutely. We can discuss that 238 00:14:56,529 --> 00:14:58,264 when I get back day after tomorrow. 239 00:15:16,516 --> 00:15:17,717 Oh, dear. 240 00:15:20,954 --> 00:15:21,955 [CAR DOOR BEEPS] 241 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,129 [WIND CHIMES TINKLING] 242 00:15:35,402 --> 00:15:36,469 KENDRA: Mr. and Mrs. Perry? 243 00:15:36,536 --> 00:15:38,171 Jay, please. Kendra? 244 00:15:38,204 --> 00:15:39,205 KENDRA: Yes. 245 00:15:53,353 --> 00:15:54,354 JAY: Gail? 246 00:16:05,465 --> 00:16:06,900 Hi. 247 00:16:06,933 --> 00:16:08,435 - Hi. Jay Perry. - Oh, hi. 248 00:16:08,468 --> 00:16:09,636 - This is my wife, Gail. - My name is Judy. 249 00:16:09,703 --> 00:16:10,737 - Hello. - Hi, Judy. 250 00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:11,805 - ANTHONY: Hi. - I'm Jay. 251 00:16:11,871 --> 00:16:13,600 Hi. Thank you so much for coming. 252 00:16:13,390 --> 00:16:14,941 Thank you for, uh, providing the space. 253 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,610 Oh, absolutely. We're so happy we could help. 254 00:16:17,644 --> 00:16:19,790 Well, we have you all set up right back here. 255 00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:20,146 Oh, yeah. We have some food... 256 00:16:20,180 --> 00:16:21,748 Great. 257 00:16:21,781 --> 00:16:23,490 ...and some coffee, and some water. Do y'all want anything? 258 00:16:23,830 --> 00:16:25,510 I think we're good for now. Right? 259 00:16:26,186 --> 00:16:28,540 I'm fine. 260 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:29,389 KENDRA: Thank you, Judy. JUDY: Yeah, thank you. 261 00:16:29,456 --> 00:16:31,191 Should... Do you want me to show you the space? 262 00:16:31,224 --> 00:16:32,792 No, I'll show them. Thank you. 263 00:16:32,826 --> 00:16:34,394 Okay, great. It's so lovely to meet both of you, so much. 264 00:16:34,461 --> 00:16:36,162 - Thank you. - You can follow me. 265 00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:40,660 KENDRA: Right here. 266 00:16:42,535 --> 00:16:44,170 [JUDY EXHALES DEEPLY] 267 00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:47,974 KENDRA: Is the room okay for you? 268 00:16:52,479 --> 00:16:53,680 JAY: Uh... 269 00:16:54,614 --> 00:16:56,649 Table, chairs, 270 00:16:56,683 --> 00:16:58,251 Jesus watching us. 271 00:16:58,852 --> 00:16:59,919 It's great. 272 00:16:59,953 --> 00:17:01,755 Okay. Well, I know 273 00:17:01,788 --> 00:17:03,923 we've gotten your signatures on everything, 274 00:17:03,957 --> 00:17:05,191 and you're all squared away 275 00:17:05,225 --> 00:17:07,930 as far as our offices are concerned. 276 00:17:07,127 --> 00:17:09,529 But... while it's just the three of us, 277 00:17:09,562 --> 00:17:11,264 is there anything you want to ask me? 278 00:17:12,966 --> 00:17:14,000 I think we're okay. 279 00:17:14,670 --> 00:17:15,669 Will they be here soon? 280 00:17:15,702 --> 00:17:16,770 KENDRA: I just spoke with them. 281 00:17:16,803 --> 00:17:17,971 They should be here any minute. 282 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:19,105 - Oh. - Would you be okay 283 00:17:19,139 --> 00:17:20,206 if I left you alone for just a bit? 284 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:21,374 Absolutely. Sure. 285 00:17:21,408 --> 00:17:22,709 KENDRA: I'll be right back. 286 00:17:43,163 --> 00:17:45,331 KENDRA: Hi. No, I'm outside. 287 00:17:46,733 --> 00:17:48,668 Oh, I... I see you. 288 00:18:01,748 --> 00:18:03,283 [GAIL CLEARS THROAT] 289 00:18:03,316 --> 00:18:04,617 KENDRA: We're right in here. 290 00:18:07,687 --> 00:18:09,456 - Hello. - JAY: Hi. 291 00:18:09,489 --> 00:18:14,160 Richard, Linda, this is Jay and Gail Perry. 292 00:18:14,194 --> 00:18:17,130 We've met, actually. It was a long time ago. 293 00:18:19,199 --> 00:18:20,567 How are you? 294 00:18:21,501 --> 00:18:24,170 Yeah, we're fine. Thanks. 295 00:18:27,374 --> 00:18:29,376 Have you been waiting long? 296 00:18:29,442 --> 00:18:32,212 No, we just got here. We haven't even sat down. 297 00:18:32,278 --> 00:18:33,947 How's the room? Okay? 298 00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:36,490 - It's fine. - I thought so. 299 00:18:37,650 --> 00:18:38,651 Gail? 300 00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:40,520 I'm fine. 301 00:18:41,454 --> 00:18:42,756 KENDRA: Okay, good. 302 00:18:44,357 --> 00:18:46,593 I brought these for you. 303 00:18:46,626 --> 00:18:48,628 Oh. Oh. 304 00:18:48,661 --> 00:18:50,363 - I'm sorry. - GAIL: No, they're... 305 00:18:50,397 --> 00:18:51,464 Small. 306 00:18:51,498 --> 00:18:53,400 No, they're very nice. Thank you. 307 00:18:57,971 --> 00:18:59,205 Should we sit? 308 00:19:00,407 --> 00:19:02,308 Yeah, let's take a seat. 309 00:19:10,917 --> 00:19:11,985 [LINDA WHISPERING INDISTINCTLY] 310 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:13,530 Take your coat? 311 00:19:22,128 --> 00:19:23,997 Well, we've... we've spoken. 312 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:25,632 Yeah, we're all sorted. 313 00:19:25,665 --> 00:19:27,133 We are. Yes. 314 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:32,238 Well, I'm grateful to see you all together finally. 315 00:19:32,272 --> 00:19:33,540 May I say that? 316 00:19:33,573 --> 00:19:36,760 And I'm hopeful that we all think 317 00:19:36,109 --> 00:19:37,277 that this was a good thing to do 318 00:19:37,344 --> 00:19:39,379 by the time we leave here today. 319 00:19:39,412 --> 00:19:40,447 Is that okay? 320 00:19:40,513 --> 00:19:41,948 - Yes. - Thanks, Kendra. 321 00:19:41,981 --> 00:19:45,850 KENDRA: All right, well, I'm going to leave you alone. 322 00:19:45,118 --> 00:19:46,419 Let me know if you need anything. 323 00:19:47,287 --> 00:19:48,521 Nice to meet you both. 324 00:19:48,555 --> 00:19:49,923 - You too. - KENDRA: Mmm-hmm. 325 00:19:49,956 --> 00:19:52,158 [JAY BREATHES DEEPLY] 326 00:20:07,107 --> 00:20:09,242 You wanna maybe just... 327 00:20:14,314 --> 00:20:15,815 These are nice. 328 00:20:15,849 --> 00:20:17,183 LINDA: Thank you. 329 00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:18,985 I wanted to bring something. 330 00:20:20,387 --> 00:20:23,230 Uh, I tried to pick what's available 331 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,592 or seasonal, which isn't much. 332 00:20:25,625 --> 00:20:29,429 - You made this? - Yeah. Sort of a new hobby. 333 00:20:29,462 --> 00:20:30,463 GAIL: Oh. 334 00:20:32,399 --> 00:20:33,967 Thank you. 335 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,100 LINDA: Sure. 336 00:20:38,304 --> 00:20:40,774 I'm sorry. Just... I don't want to be rude. 337 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,430 But could we just, like, while we're talking, 338 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,450 - just put these somewhere? - Of course. 339 00:20:45,780 --> 00:20:46,146 - No, no, no, I'll take it. - JAY: Okay. 340 00:20:46,179 --> 00:20:47,347 - I'm so sorry. - JAY: No. 341 00:20:53,286 --> 00:20:54,888 [JAY CLEARS THROAT] 342 00:20:59,225 --> 00:21:01,761 - Thank you. - LINDA: Oh, sure. 343 00:21:03,196 --> 00:21:04,898 You know that... Okay. 344 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:07,600 How was your trip down here? 345 00:21:07,634 --> 00:21:10,470 Drive. We drove. Yeah. It was fine. 346 00:21:10,503 --> 00:21:12,720 Did you drive or...? 347 00:21:12,105 --> 00:21:16,760 RICHARD: I flew in last night. I'm leaving this afternoon. 348 00:21:16,109 --> 00:21:18,311 Oh, okay. Right. 349 00:21:19,546 --> 00:21:22,480 Will you be driving back tonight or...? 350 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:24,818 We have a room, hotel arranged, 351 00:21:24,884 --> 00:21:26,386 but we may not want to stay over. 352 00:21:26,453 --> 00:21:28,455 - LINDA: Head back? - Right. 353 00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:36,363 So, um, look, thank you for agreeing to meet us 354 00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:39,320 and together. 355 00:21:39,650 --> 00:21:41,267 Oh, you're welcome. 356 00:21:41,334 --> 00:21:45,405 I appreciate you, all of you, making the journey. 357 00:21:45,472 --> 00:21:47,107 I know I'm not easy to get to. 358 00:21:47,140 --> 00:21:48,475 We're happy to come to you, Linda. 359 00:21:48,508 --> 00:21:52,245 I mean, yes, and I, uh... 360 00:21:54,981 --> 00:21:57,283 We want to start by saying that 361 00:21:57,350 --> 00:22:01,554 we, uh, regret some of the things that we said. 362 00:22:01,588 --> 00:22:03,857 Oh, don't, don't be regretful. 363 00:22:03,923 --> 00:22:07,127 We wish we didn't have to rely so much on our attorneys. 364 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,263 But, uh, now it's really just to protect our son. 365 00:22:12,565 --> 00:22:13,833 - Steven. - JAY: Mmm. 366 00:22:14,868 --> 00:22:16,836 Yeah. How's he doing? 367 00:22:16,870 --> 00:22:18,672 RICHARD: He's doing very well. Thank you for asking. 368 00:22:18,705 --> 00:22:21,740 They're in Baltimore now, not far from me. 369 00:22:21,107 --> 00:22:22,242 They have a little boy on the way. 370 00:22:22,275 --> 00:22:24,100 JAY: That's great. 371 00:22:24,770 --> 00:22:25,945 Thank you. And how is Sophie? 372 00:22:25,979 --> 00:22:28,314 - How's your daughter? - JAY: She's, uh... 373 00:22:28,381 --> 00:22:30,583 - She's doing fine. - She's much better. 374 00:22:30,617 --> 00:22:33,820 She's made a lot of progress the last year. 375 00:22:33,853 --> 00:22:35,555 She's looking at, uh, 376 00:22:35,588 --> 00:22:37,524 applying to schools now, college, for the fall. 377 00:22:37,557 --> 00:22:38,591 Oh, that's wonderful. 378 00:22:38,625 --> 00:22:39,726 - That's great. - JAY: Thanks. 379 00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:41,270 RICHARD: That's great. That's great. 380 00:22:41,610 --> 00:22:42,620 - JAY: Yeah. - [CLEARS THROAT] Yeah. 381 00:22:49,402 --> 00:22:50,870 - [CLEARS THROAT] - Um... 382 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:53,840 [GAIL CLEARING THROAT] 383 00:22:56,576 --> 00:22:57,610 [SIGHS] 384 00:22:57,644 --> 00:23:00,347 Did you guys bring photos or...? 385 00:23:00,413 --> 00:23:02,716 Yes, yes. I... 386 00:23:02,749 --> 00:23:04,317 There was some talk of maybe, uh... 387 00:23:05,785 --> 00:23:08,355 it would be good to share them. I don't know. 388 00:23:08,421 --> 00:23:09,589 Gail, do you wanna...? 389 00:23:09,622 --> 00:23:13,590 And I also brought other things to share. 390 00:23:13,930 --> 00:23:15,195 Yep. Kendra said you might do that. Sure. 391 00:23:15,228 --> 00:23:16,996 LINDA: Okay, good. 392 00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,990 I don't know if this is a good time for... 393 00:23:19,165 --> 00:23:20,200 Do you wanna wait till they go? 394 00:23:20,233 --> 00:23:21,334 No. I'm okay. 395 00:23:21,368 --> 00:23:22,435 No? Okay, so maybe we should just... 396 00:23:22,469 --> 00:23:24,700 No. We agreed, so... here. 397 00:23:25,171 --> 00:23:26,373 [GAIL SIGHS] 398 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:32,479 Here. This is Sophie. 399 00:23:32,512 --> 00:23:34,781 - Oh. - Oh. 400 00:23:34,814 --> 00:23:36,516 - Oh, she's beautiful. - Oh, she's a young lady now. 401 00:23:36,583 --> 00:23:38,651 JAY: Yeah. She's grown up a lot. 402 00:23:38,685 --> 00:23:39,786 LINDA: Oh, oh. 403 00:23:39,819 --> 00:23:41,210 JAY: Yeah. 404 00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:44,391 - Oh. - GAIL: And this is, uh... 405 00:23:50,497 --> 00:23:51,831 I'd like to see them. 406 00:23:53,666 --> 00:23:54,667 Okay. 407 00:23:56,970 --> 00:23:58,972 This is Evan when he was three. 408 00:23:59,706 --> 00:24:00,974 [RICHARD CHUCKLES] 409 00:24:01,410 --> 00:24:04,244 - Oh, my goodness. - What's he got there? 410 00:24:04,277 --> 00:24:05,779 - He's so sweet. - JAY: It's, uh... 411 00:24:05,812 --> 00:24:07,681 It's one of those, uh, roller thing... 412 00:24:07,714 --> 00:24:09,416 Push that thing everywhere 413 00:24:09,482 --> 00:24:10,917 and balls would bounce, would pop. 414 00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:12,520 They'd pop out of it, yeah. Yeah. 415 00:24:12,850 --> 00:24:13,860 RICHARD: Oh, right, I remember those. 416 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,988 Yeah, yeah. 417 00:24:15,550 --> 00:24:17,991 Do you have the... his catcher picture? 418 00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:19,125 Bring the catcher picture? 419 00:24:19,159 --> 00:24:20,226 Yeah, we have it. We brought it. 420 00:24:20,260 --> 00:24:21,528 Okay. You wanna...? 421 00:24:23,296 --> 00:24:25,980 Oh. Here it is. 422 00:24:25,131 --> 00:24:28,100 I think he was about 12. Little League. 423 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:29,102 Oh. 424 00:24:29,135 --> 00:24:30,303 He was a good athlete, wasn't he? 425 00:24:30,370 --> 00:24:31,538 JAY: Yeah, he was really good at sports. 426 00:24:31,571 --> 00:24:32,572 Look at him. 427 00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:33,707 I mean, he liked a lot of things. 428 00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:35,408 He was, you know... 429 00:24:35,442 --> 00:24:38,878 Sung in a band, Model UN, a lot of stuff. 430 00:24:38,945 --> 00:24:41,314 But, yeah, he was a very good athlete. 431 00:24:41,381 --> 00:24:42,749 Oh. 432 00:24:42,816 --> 00:24:45,819 The... It's a funny thing, but the catcher outfit... 433 00:24:45,852 --> 00:24:46,886 He didn't want to play catcher. 434 00:24:46,953 --> 00:24:48,688 He just liked the gear. 435 00:24:48,722 --> 00:24:50,824 LINDA: Oh, he liked the gear. 436 00:24:50,857 --> 00:24:52,192 - Yeah. - LINDA: Oh. 437 00:24:55,995 --> 00:24:59,866 So, um, do we have one of all of us, or...? 438 00:24:59,899 --> 00:25:01,968 Of course. Lots. 439 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:03,903 We had to print a lot of photos out. 440 00:25:03,970 --> 00:25:05,500 Nobody has photographs anymore. 441 00:25:05,380 --> 00:25:06,439 - Right? - LINDA: Yeah. 442 00:25:06,473 --> 00:25:07,774 It's nice to hold something. Not just, you know... 443 00:25:07,841 --> 00:25:09,409 - LINDA: It is. - This is us. 444 00:25:11,277 --> 00:25:13,460 - JAY: That's... - That's the last Christmas. 445 00:25:17,917 --> 00:25:23,757 Yeah, we were always... We made them all dress up. 446 00:25:23,790 --> 00:25:26,459 "Cheesy," we're saying there. We're not saying cheese. 447 00:25:26,493 --> 00:25:27,594 Our family never did. 448 00:25:29,362 --> 00:25:33,767 They thought we were so stupid because... Ridiculous. 449 00:25:36,569 --> 00:25:38,171 [LINDA CRYING] 450 00:25:41,207 --> 00:25:42,342 I'm sorry. 451 00:25:42,375 --> 00:25:44,210 - It's okay. - JAY: Yeah. 452 00:25:44,244 --> 00:25:46,446 - No, I'm sorry. - GAIL: Here. 453 00:25:46,479 --> 00:25:47,614 RICHARD: No, don't be, Linda. 454 00:25:47,647 --> 00:25:49,182 No, no, maybe we should... 455 00:25:49,215 --> 00:25:52,619 - Okay. - I wanted to share too. 456 00:25:52,652 --> 00:25:55,789 No, I wanted to share ours too, but... 457 00:25:59,626 --> 00:26:00,627 It's hard. 458 00:26:02,162 --> 00:26:03,163 LINDA: It is. 459 00:26:12,772 --> 00:26:13,773 Honey? 460 00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:27,120 Thank you. 461 00:26:32,659 --> 00:26:34,394 [LINDA CRYING] 462 00:26:35,829 --> 00:26:36,996 I'm sorry. 463 00:26:37,997 --> 00:26:39,650 I... 464 00:26:41,835 --> 00:26:47,574 If I could just show you something? 465 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,750 No, we don't have to. 466 00:26:49,109 --> 00:26:51,277 - LINDA: No? - No, no, no, no. 467 00:26:51,311 --> 00:26:52,712 Maybe it wasn't a good idea. 468 00:26:54,314 --> 00:26:55,548 No, I want to. 469 00:26:58,451 --> 00:27:00,587 I brought something. 470 00:27:00,653 --> 00:27:04,900 Uh, it's easier. It's not photos. 471 00:27:04,124 --> 00:27:06,326 But is that okay, Gail? 472 00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:09,229 Sure. 473 00:27:09,996 --> 00:27:11,231 LINDA: Okay. Right. 474 00:27:12,232 --> 00:27:14,701 So, this is... 475 00:27:14,734 --> 00:27:15,869 JAY: Oh, wow. 476 00:27:15,902 --> 00:27:16,970 Yeah. 477 00:27:18,672 --> 00:27:23,109 He used to carry this all the time. 478 00:27:23,143 --> 00:27:24,878 When? Fourth and fifth grade, right? 479 00:27:24,911 --> 00:27:26,120 No, younger than that. 480 00:27:26,460 --> 00:27:27,447 What am I looking at? 481 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,184 Well, he used to love to collect snails. 482 00:27:31,251 --> 00:27:34,120 He was just fascinated by snails. 483 00:27:34,154 --> 00:27:36,589 And he would collect them in this jar. 484 00:27:38,291 --> 00:27:39,826 [CHUCKLING] 485 00:27:39,859 --> 00:27:43,863 And he would carry them around with him wherever he went. 486 00:27:43,897 --> 00:27:46,900 But, um, kids... thought it was weird. 487 00:27:46,933 --> 00:27:48,368 It was, a little. 488 00:27:49,336 --> 00:27:51,638 He just loved them. 489 00:27:51,705 --> 00:27:54,874 But there were problems with keeping them this way. 490 00:27:54,908 --> 00:27:57,744 He would just get so upset, you know. 491 00:27:57,777 --> 00:28:02,716 And when snails break, it's... No. 492 00:28:02,749 --> 00:28:05,952 So one day, he showed up with this. 493 00:28:06,886 --> 00:28:09,189 Paper snails. See? 494 00:28:09,222 --> 00:28:12,225 - Yeah. - There's leaves and a flower. 495 00:28:12,292 --> 00:28:14,600 And I think this is a rock. 496 00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:16,162 JAY: Uh-huh. 497 00:28:16,196 --> 00:28:19,165 - It's a garden for the snails. - Right. 498 00:28:19,199 --> 00:28:23,403 And he said, "This way, they won't die." 499 00:28:24,237 --> 00:28:27,774 I think it's so, so clever. 500 00:28:27,807 --> 00:28:28,975 Yeah, that is. 501 00:28:30,176 --> 00:28:33,179 I thought it... I thought it was. 502 00:28:33,213 --> 00:28:37,784 And then when I had my concerns... 503 00:28:37,817 --> 00:28:38,952 You did? 504 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,388 Oh, not... 505 00:28:42,322 --> 00:28:43,957 About his sensitivity. 506 00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:45,525 Yeah. 507 00:28:45,558 --> 00:28:48,795 Although, really, I was happy for him to... 508 00:28:48,828 --> 00:28:50,630 Find a solution. 509 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,234 He was always determined to find a solution. 510 00:28:57,704 --> 00:29:03,209 Yeah. I was happy that he was. 511 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,518 Well, thank you. 512 00:29:12,819 --> 00:29:13,920 JAY: Thank you 513 00:29:13,953 --> 00:29:16,222 - for sharing that, Linda. - Yeah. 514 00:29:16,256 --> 00:29:19,659 I just wanted to, um, show you something. 515 00:29:19,693 --> 00:29:20,827 - JAY: Mmm-hmm. - The... 516 00:29:30,870 --> 00:29:33,139 So, your daughter. She's doing well? 517 00:29:33,173 --> 00:29:34,841 - Yeah. - She's doing well, yes. 518 00:29:34,874 --> 00:29:37,544 Yeah, she's gonna be fine. Yeah. 519 00:29:37,577 --> 00:29:41,114 She's a lot more sociable than she was. 520 00:29:41,147 --> 00:29:43,160 Or she's, um... Actually, we miss her. 521 00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:44,451 Now, she's out too much. 522 00:29:44,484 --> 00:29:45,852 She's dating. 523 00:29:45,885 --> 00:29:47,187 I don't know if she's actually... 524 00:29:47,253 --> 00:29:48,855 She's dating. 525 00:29:48,888 --> 00:29:53,259 Oh. Well, there you go. So she's, uh... 526 00:29:53,293 --> 00:29:54,461 Yeah. 527 00:29:54,494 --> 00:29:56,129 She's starting to be a lot more herself. 528 00:29:56,162 --> 00:29:57,964 LINDA: Oh. That's wonderful. 529 00:29:57,997 --> 00:30:00,600 Yeah. She's made a lot of progress. 530 00:30:00,633 --> 00:30:02,769 LINDA: Oh. That's wonderful. 531 00:30:02,836 --> 00:30:04,637 You mentioned to Linda 532 00:30:04,704 --> 00:30:07,841 that you've made some progress yourself, um, 533 00:30:07,874 --> 00:30:09,175 in your letters. 534 00:30:09,209 --> 00:30:10,276 A therapist? 535 00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:12,846 Oh, I'm sorry, I did share that. 536 00:30:12,879 --> 00:30:14,280 I did share it with him. 537 00:30:14,314 --> 00:30:16,182 She just mentioned. 538 00:30:16,216 --> 00:30:20,353 Um, you mentioned that you found someone who's been... 539 00:30:20,420 --> 00:30:23,156 Yes, she's been very helpful. That's right. 540 00:30:23,189 --> 00:30:24,290 LINDA: That's good. 541 00:30:24,324 --> 00:30:27,894 Yeah, that's... She's... She was... 542 00:30:27,927 --> 00:30:30,497 Well, she is a big reason why we're here. 543 00:30:31,598 --> 00:30:33,867 Okay, so you both see her. 544 00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:35,168 Well, um... 545 00:30:36,169 --> 00:30:37,937 - We do. - Yeah. 546 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:39,806 Yeah. Yeah. 547 00:30:39,873 --> 00:30:46,112 And she has encouraged us to express ourselves today, 548 00:30:46,179 --> 00:30:50,500 but not to interrogate, that's important, 549 00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:53,953 to be curious, and not defensive... 550 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:55,121 Not vindictive. 551 00:30:56,523 --> 00:30:59,250 - She said "vindictive." - Not defensive? 552 00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:01,610 No, if we are vindictive. 553 00:31:01,940 --> 00:31:02,762 All right. Sorry. 554 00:31:04,197 --> 00:31:05,699 It doesn't matter. 555 00:31:05,765 --> 00:31:09,803 The point is that we're not here to attack you, 556 00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:11,771 and we've promised that. 557 00:31:11,805 --> 00:31:15,775 But we've felt everything that we've said. 558 00:31:15,809 --> 00:31:18,111 Right? We're not... 559 00:31:18,144 --> 00:31:21,481 We're not going to apologize for our feelings. 560 00:31:21,514 --> 00:31:22,849 Thank you for your honesty. 561 00:31:22,916 --> 00:31:25,218 We want to listen, 562 00:31:26,386 --> 00:31:27,787 and we want to heal. 563 00:31:27,821 --> 00:31:28,822 RICHARD: Of course. 564 00:31:29,856 --> 00:31:31,691 You know, your letters 565 00:31:32,726 --> 00:31:34,994 meant so much to me. 566 00:31:35,610 --> 00:31:38,231 Even the hard ones, I really... 567 00:31:38,264 --> 00:31:40,567 I really appreciate them. 568 00:31:48,541 --> 00:31:52,946 We can tell that you've done a lot of work, continue to, 569 00:31:52,979 --> 00:31:58,180 and I don't just mean what you've done publicly. 570 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,254 But it is admirable how you put yourselves out there. 571 00:32:01,287 --> 00:32:02,856 Uh, we actually, Linda and I, 572 00:32:02,889 --> 00:32:04,958 have, um, followed your work for years. 573 00:32:04,991 --> 00:32:06,593 - JAY: Right. - Well, everyone's... 574 00:32:06,626 --> 00:32:09,162 - Yeah, everyone's, but... - Well, thank you. 575 00:32:09,195 --> 00:32:13,733 But I... I don't get any pleasure from it, you know. 576 00:32:13,767 --> 00:32:16,302 RICHARD: It can be defeating, that kind of activism. 577 00:32:16,336 --> 00:32:18,571 Yes, it can, but I don't like that word. 578 00:32:18,605 --> 00:32:20,473 I'm not... 579 00:32:20,540 --> 00:32:24,310 I wouldn't know what else to do with myself. 580 00:32:24,344 --> 00:32:26,460 Your persistence is admirable. 581 00:32:26,112 --> 00:32:28,581 Well, thank you. 582 00:32:28,615 --> 00:32:32,752 But we're really not here today to talk about that. 583 00:32:32,786 --> 00:32:34,187 Oh, I don't think it's not relevant. 584 00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:36,556 You don't believe, as a country, 585 00:32:36,589 --> 00:32:39,125 we are meeting our obligations. 586 00:32:39,159 --> 00:32:41,795 Well, I didn't... That... I was quoting President Obama. 587 00:32:41,861 --> 00:32:44,640 No, I don't. I think we're killing each other. 588 00:32:44,130 --> 00:32:45,865 - We are. - I don't disagree. 589 00:32:45,899 --> 00:32:47,801 But there are just so many factors that... 590 00:32:47,867 --> 00:32:51,137 You know, it's not about one thing or the other. It... 591 00:32:51,171 --> 00:32:52,172 [CLEARS THROAT] 592 00:32:52,906 --> 00:32:54,140 Yeah. Sorry. 593 00:32:54,174 --> 00:32:56,676 No. Go ahead. 594 00:32:56,743 --> 00:32:59,579 It's just, I promised I wouldn't talk about it today. 595 00:32:59,612 --> 00:33:01,581 - We don't have to. - No. 596 00:33:03,683 --> 00:33:05,585 It's just... Can I just say that 597 00:33:05,618 --> 00:33:08,388 it's not whether it's one thing or the other. 598 00:33:08,455 --> 00:33:09,656 That's the fallacy. 599 00:33:09,689 --> 00:33:13,693 That's their whole distraction, or defense. 600 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,950 You know, "Don't look over here by guns." 601 00:33:15,161 --> 00:33:16,963 "Look over there by mental health," 602 00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:19,399 as if, you know, it's not possible to address both. 603 00:33:19,466 --> 00:33:20,934 It's insulting. 604 00:33:20,967 --> 00:33:23,837 Yes, we can. But if your child wanted to hurt himself, 605 00:33:24,637 --> 00:33:25,705 would you only remove 606 00:33:25,772 --> 00:33:27,730 the dangerous items from the house? 607 00:33:27,107 --> 00:33:30,760 No. You'd want to help him. 608 00:33:30,110 --> 00:33:31,711 You'd want to find out what was wrong 609 00:33:31,778 --> 00:33:32,846 and you'd want to change that. 610 00:33:32,912 --> 00:33:34,781 Hey, why are we talking about this? 611 00:33:35,949 --> 00:33:37,250 What? 612 00:33:37,283 --> 00:33:38,651 Why are we talking about this? 613 00:33:38,685 --> 00:33:41,354 I didn't come here to listen to this. 614 00:33:41,388 --> 00:33:44,491 Yeah, okay. I'm sorry. 615 00:33:47,930 --> 00:33:49,229 - I didn't mean to offend. - GAIL: Oh. 616 00:33:49,262 --> 00:33:53,990 I just think that we find, 617 00:33:53,133 --> 00:33:55,969 through blame, our means to change, 618 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,538 and I want to question that. 619 00:33:58,571 --> 00:34:01,675 I want to look at everything because I blame myself, 620 00:34:02,308 --> 00:34:04,770 and I can't change that. 621 00:34:04,110 --> 00:34:06,146 What do you mean? 622 00:34:06,212 --> 00:34:07,580 - I can't... - When you say that, 623 00:34:07,647 --> 00:34:10,283 what do you... What do you mean when you say that? 624 00:34:13,386 --> 00:34:15,121 I can't change what I've done. 625 00:34:16,256 --> 00:34:17,891 You... So you blame yourself? 626 00:34:22,562 --> 00:34:24,300 I'm asking... 627 00:34:24,970 --> 00:34:25,665 - Do you blame yourself? - JAY: Hey. 628 00:34:27,267 --> 00:34:28,468 No, I want to know. 629 00:34:28,535 --> 00:34:30,904 I didn't come here to talk ****ing politics. 630 00:34:30,970 --> 00:34:32,539 I wanna know. 631 00:34:32,572 --> 00:34:34,607 We don't wanna interrogate. 632 00:34:34,674 --> 00:34:37,610 I can imagine how hard it is to live with his actions. 633 00:34:37,677 --> 00:34:39,346 - RICHARD: It is. - But our loss... 634 00:34:42,882 --> 00:34:45,185 Please just tell me what you mean by that. 635 00:34:46,853 --> 00:34:51,558 When you talk about blame on your part, 636 00:34:51,591 --> 00:34:53,560 I want to know what you're referring to. 637 00:34:53,593 --> 00:34:56,296 There is nothing that wasn't covered in the depositions. 638 00:34:56,329 --> 00:34:58,798 But I want to hear it now. 639 00:34:59,933 --> 00:35:01,468 We never filed against you. 640 00:35:01,501 --> 00:35:03,303 We never took part in any of that. 641 00:35:03,336 --> 00:35:05,705 Maybe a better way than interrogating 642 00:35:05,739 --> 00:35:09,750 - is to learn what we remember. - Fine. Fine. 643 00:35:09,142 --> 00:35:12,612 So... tell me what you remember. 644 00:35:14,147 --> 00:35:15,615 Tell me about your son. 645 00:35:19,850 --> 00:35:20,320 What would you like to know? 646 00:35:20,353 --> 00:35:21,221 GAIL: Everything, I want to know everything. 647 00:35:21,287 --> 00:35:22,622 Why? 648 00:35:22,655 --> 00:35:24,157 Why do I want to know about your son? 649 00:35:24,190 --> 00:35:25,392 Because he killed mine. 650 00:35:35,802 --> 00:35:36,970 [SCOFFS] 651 00:35:38,371 --> 00:35:39,472 [GAIL SNIFFLES] 652 00:35:51,618 --> 00:35:53,753 How far back would you like to go? 653 00:35:54,621 --> 00:35:55,822 Wherever you need. 654 00:35:57,390 --> 00:36:01,828 Because I can tell you everything. 655 00:36:01,861 --> 00:36:04,264 But there's so much that no one will ever know. 656 00:36:09,402 --> 00:36:14,808 He was shy, always. Even as a baby. 657 00:36:14,841 --> 00:36:18,845 We watched him. But I wasn't concerned. 658 00:36:18,878 --> 00:36:21,247 I saw things that no one else saw. 659 00:36:22,415 --> 00:36:24,150 He didn't play well with others. 660 00:36:24,217 --> 00:36:26,219 Not that he was mean. 661 00:36:26,252 --> 00:36:30,290 He just didn't seem to know how to. 662 00:36:30,357 --> 00:36:32,892 And later, when he was older, he only wanted to be outside. 663 00:36:32,959 --> 00:36:34,427 He loved the outdoors. 664 00:36:34,461 --> 00:36:36,596 I know this. No, I know this. 665 00:36:36,663 --> 00:36:39,299 I mean, he was shy, he loved animals. 666 00:36:39,366 --> 00:36:42,302 I've read everything. 667 00:36:42,369 --> 00:36:43,903 I don't know what you want me to say. 668 00:36:43,970 --> 00:36:45,972 What did worry you? 669 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,242 You said you never worried, but what scared you? 670 00:36:49,275 --> 00:36:52,178 My son never scared me as a child. 671 00:36:52,245 --> 00:36:53,680 The photographs I have, 672 00:36:53,713 --> 00:36:55,382 the ones we don't want to look at... 673 00:36:55,415 --> 00:36:56,816 I don't need to see them. Okay? 674 00:36:56,850 --> 00:36:59,119 - JAY: That's not why we... - I don't need to see him. 675 00:36:59,152 --> 00:37:02,589 - Sure. Okay. - I want to know what changed. 676 00:37:03,890 --> 00:37:07,894 When he was 13, he started going online. 677 00:37:07,927 --> 00:37:10,430 He started that gaming profile, that account. 678 00:37:10,463 --> 00:37:11,765 RICHARD: They weren't violent games then. 679 00:37:11,831 --> 00:37:13,660 I know that, but... 680 00:37:13,133 --> 00:37:15,350 LINDA: They were fantasy games, like role-play. 681 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:16,169 Yeah, I know that. But it was still 682 00:37:16,202 --> 00:37:17,871 the same account that he used later on. 683 00:37:17,904 --> 00:37:21,941 So I'm just asking, what changed? 684 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:23,309 RICHARD: That's very hard to answer. 685 00:37:23,343 --> 00:37:25,478 - GAIL: Well, please try. - It's not just one thing. 686 00:37:25,512 --> 00:37:27,800 Then tell me more than one thing. 687 00:37:27,147 --> 00:37:29,749 JAY: Okay, Gail. Let's not do it like this. 688 00:37:29,783 --> 00:37:31,518 - Okay? - GAIL: Okay. 689 00:37:31,584 --> 00:37:33,319 All right. 690 00:37:33,353 --> 00:37:35,321 GAIL: You're right. 691 00:37:35,355 --> 00:37:37,924 - I'm sorry. - JAY: Yeah, yeah. Just... 692 00:37:37,957 --> 00:37:39,959 We're not interrogating. 693 00:37:40,260 --> 00:37:41,327 LINDA: Then what are you doing? 694 00:37:43,363 --> 00:37:46,633 I say that as compassionately as I can. 695 00:37:46,666 --> 00:37:48,902 What are we doing? 696 00:37:48,935 --> 00:37:51,938 You say you want to heal. We all do. 697 00:37:52,605 --> 00:37:53,973 Is this how? 698 00:38:02,782 --> 00:38:07,887 I think, uh, we wanna know why... 699 00:38:08,988 --> 00:38:11,191 How this happened. 700 00:38:11,224 --> 00:38:12,325 - Right? - Mmm. 701 00:38:12,359 --> 00:38:16,363 I mean, we... We need to hear that. 702 00:38:17,564 --> 00:38:19,899 We need your help with that. 703 00:38:23,403 --> 00:38:24,804 I'm willing to help. 704 00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:28,408 We moved. 705 00:38:28,475 --> 00:38:30,100 You asked what changed. We moved. 706 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:31,578 We did, but we can't be certain 707 00:38:31,644 --> 00:38:34,347 which changes affected him most. 708 00:38:34,381 --> 00:38:36,916 The new school with a new environment. 709 00:38:36,950 --> 00:38:37,984 It's very, very hard. 710 00:38:38,180 --> 00:38:40,720 Hayden didn't have close friends, 711 00:38:40,787 --> 00:38:42,922 growing up, as you probably know. 712 00:38:42,956 --> 00:38:44,991 But by middle school, that mattered more, 713 00:38:45,250 --> 00:38:47,930 and it affected him. 714 00:38:47,127 --> 00:38:49,829 A lot of things changed at that age. 715 00:38:49,863 --> 00:38:51,231 I had a new job. 716 00:38:51,264 --> 00:38:52,732 Steven was applying for colleges. 717 00:38:52,799 --> 00:38:57,370 So we were looking at tuition costs, private schools. 718 00:39:00,540 --> 00:39:01,574 We moved. 719 00:39:03,677 --> 00:39:05,378 Our older house had more space. 720 00:39:05,412 --> 00:39:07,447 Outdoors, but where we moved to actually 721 00:39:07,514 --> 00:39:09,849 was a much bigger home. 722 00:39:10,550 --> 00:39:12,285 LINDA: That's true. 723 00:39:12,318 --> 00:39:14,587 But where we were had a great backyard. 724 00:39:14,621 --> 00:39:15,989 The new neighborhood was very nice. 725 00:39:16,220 --> 00:39:17,424 It was just more suburban. 726 00:39:18,992 --> 00:39:20,126 Plots. 727 00:39:22,562 --> 00:39:24,764 There wasn't the freedom he was used to. 728 00:39:24,831 --> 00:39:26,660 But it was nice. 729 00:39:29,469 --> 00:39:30,737 It was, Richard. 730 00:39:30,770 --> 00:39:32,339 The new school was very hard for him, 731 00:39:32,405 --> 00:39:35,141 seventh grade in particular. Bullying. 732 00:39:35,175 --> 00:39:36,543 LINDA: Yes, it was... it was very bad. 733 00:39:36,576 --> 00:39:41,414 Yes. And the boys were a few years apart. 734 00:39:41,448 --> 00:39:44,918 So Steven, who was really thriving in high school, 735 00:39:44,984 --> 00:39:46,920 he didn't have a lot to give Hayden 736 00:39:46,986 --> 00:39:49,222 at that time, unfortunately. 737 00:39:51,191 --> 00:39:55,295 Sometimes I wish that the boys had been closer, 738 00:39:55,328 --> 00:39:58,431 closer in age so that they could've shared friends. 739 00:40:10,443 --> 00:40:17,500 We never planned or expected to have another. 740 00:40:17,830 --> 00:40:18,585 [LINDA SOBS] 741 00:40:20,587 --> 00:40:22,655 LINDA: I think he was lonely, uh, 742 00:40:22,689 --> 00:40:27,127 and I think he missed how things were. 743 00:40:27,193 --> 00:40:28,361 And that's when he began to spend 744 00:40:28,395 --> 00:40:30,130 more time on the computer. 745 00:40:31,831 --> 00:40:34,968 The games, you know, we thought they were creative. 746 00:40:35,350 --> 00:40:39,539 We... We encouraged them at first. 747 00:40:39,606 --> 00:40:41,608 He could make choices. 748 00:40:41,641 --> 00:40:44,411 He could be whatever he wanted to be. 749 00:40:44,477 --> 00:40:50,350 And we could hear him playing with others, 750 00:40:50,383 --> 00:40:53,853 and he would laugh, which made me... 751 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,355 [SOBS] 752 00:40:56,790 --> 00:40:58,625 I'm very sorry. 753 00:40:58,658 --> 00:41:01,161 Uh, and he was doing well in school. 754 00:41:01,227 --> 00:41:04,931 I mean, yeah, which was confusing and misleading. 755 00:41:04,964 --> 00:41:06,266 He always had very good grades. 756 00:41:06,299 --> 00:41:08,702 - He was first... - GAIL: Yeah, I know. 757 00:41:08,735 --> 00:41:11,504 - I'm sorry. I... I just... - RICHARD: That's fine. 758 00:41:11,538 --> 00:41:13,306 We had nothing to do with publishing his grades 759 00:41:13,373 --> 00:41:14,674 or scores, any of that. 760 00:41:14,708 --> 00:41:16,376 Yeah, well, you didn't speak out about anything. 761 00:41:16,409 --> 00:41:17,811 I was only saying that... 762 00:41:17,844 --> 00:41:21,981 Well, we mistakenly thought his grades were a sign 763 00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:23,450 that things were okay. 764 00:41:23,516 --> 00:41:25,452 - That's not all. - It is, Richard. 765 00:41:25,518 --> 00:41:26,986 We thought that's what mattered. 766 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,122 He wasn't fitting in. It hurt. 767 00:41:30,230 --> 00:41:31,124 The good grades made us 768 00:41:31,157 --> 00:41:32,325 - look past some of it. - LINDA: Okay. 769 00:41:32,392 --> 00:41:33,760 Why didn't the school say anything? 770 00:41:33,827 --> 00:41:34,861 RICHARD: This was middle school. 771 00:41:34,894 --> 00:41:36,563 I know. But why? 772 00:41:36,596 --> 00:41:38,765 The school couldn't be bothered. 773 00:41:38,832 --> 00:41:42,902 He was quiet, and he was doing well. 774 00:41:42,969 --> 00:41:45,171 He didn't require attention. 775 00:41:47,340 --> 00:41:48,575 But there was a teacher, 776 00:41:48,608 --> 00:41:50,210 a math teacher in the eighth grade... 777 00:41:50,276 --> 00:41:51,277 RICHARD: Linda. 778 00:41:53,279 --> 00:41:54,280 No. 779 00:41:56,549 --> 00:41:57,917 Hayden loved him. 780 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,554 I don't know what the connection was, 781 00:42:01,588 --> 00:42:03,757 or why it was so great. 782 00:42:03,790 --> 00:42:07,794 But he made him feel confident when he didn't. 783 00:42:10,630 --> 00:42:11,498 I wish I had... 784 00:42:13,767 --> 00:42:16,569 When he was really struggling later on, 785 00:42:16,603 --> 00:42:18,705 I tried to see if he could talk to him. 786 00:42:18,738 --> 00:42:21,608 But he had left for another school. And I didn't... 787 00:42:25,812 --> 00:42:27,914 I gave up looking for him. I... 788 00:42:31,251 --> 00:42:32,752 - I'm sorry. - That's... That's okay. 789 00:42:32,786 --> 00:42:36,489 He was teased because he had other interests. 790 00:42:36,523 --> 00:42:38,358 I think it made him embarrassed 791 00:42:38,391 --> 00:42:39,526 to have those other interests. 792 00:42:39,592 --> 00:42:42,529 He saw being different as a deficit, 793 00:42:42,595 --> 00:42:45,498 and we didn't know it or realize it 794 00:42:45,532 --> 00:42:47,467 until he showed signs of depression. 795 00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:52,105 He didn't strike you as being sad before? 796 00:42:52,172 --> 00:42:54,407 Quiet, but no. 797 00:42:54,474 --> 00:42:56,242 - Violent? - RICHARD: No, not then. 798 00:42:56,276 --> 00:42:59,112 When we grew concerned, we got help. 799 00:42:59,179 --> 00:43:00,680 GAIL: When was that? 800 00:43:00,747 --> 00:43:02,549 His medical records were made public. 801 00:43:02,615 --> 00:43:04,250 We know the timeline. We read everything. 802 00:43:04,284 --> 00:43:06,353 - We want... - But what specifically? 803 00:43:06,386 --> 00:43:08,621 RICHARD: It was his unwillingness to do things. 804 00:43:08,655 --> 00:43:11,825 When Steven left for college, 805 00:43:11,858 --> 00:43:14,127 he became angry at our attention for him. 806 00:43:14,194 --> 00:43:15,829 What would be wrong with that? 807 00:43:15,862 --> 00:43:18,198 I think he resented our concern. 808 00:43:19,265 --> 00:43:21,134 He wouldn't even let us touch him. 809 00:43:21,201 --> 00:43:23,269 So that's when you got him help? 810 00:43:23,303 --> 00:43:24,838 Eventually. 811 00:43:24,871 --> 00:43:26,973 - He didn't want to... - He never did. 812 00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:28,875 We finally forced him to see someone. 813 00:43:28,942 --> 00:43:30,410 And we didn't feel we had a choice. 814 00:43:30,443 --> 00:43:31,711 But he begged us to stop. 815 00:43:31,778 --> 00:43:34,881 He pleaded with us to let him be normal, 816 00:43:34,948 --> 00:43:37,317 or that he didn't need it anymore. 817 00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:42,789 He said the sessions made him feel not... 818 00:43:43,656 --> 00:43:44,657 What? 819 00:43:48,228 --> 00:43:49,796 Not human. 820 00:43:51,798 --> 00:43:52,799 He said that? 821 00:43:55,468 --> 00:43:57,704 RICHARD: The therapist said he needs to stop isolating. 822 00:43:57,737 --> 00:44:00,707 It's only reinforcing his negative expectations. 823 00:44:00,740 --> 00:44:04,477 All this time online is not enhancing his relationships. 824 00:44:04,544 --> 00:44:05,578 It's making him lonelier. 825 00:44:05,612 --> 00:44:07,681 So, you just let him stop going? 826 00:44:07,714 --> 00:44:09,249 For a while. 827 00:44:09,282 --> 00:44:12,285 And then things would change or something would happen... 828 00:44:12,318 --> 00:44:14,287 - JAY: Like the pipe bomb. - ...and we'd go through it 829 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,555 again. Yes. Yes. 830 00:44:15,588 --> 00:44:17,157 That certainly had consequences. 831 00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:18,458 [SARCASTICALLY] Consequences. 832 00:44:18,491 --> 00:44:21,327 RICHARD: At the time, it did. He was arrested. 833 00:44:21,361 --> 00:44:22,896 There was no consequence. 834 00:44:22,929 --> 00:44:26,733 I know how that sounds, but we were devastated. 835 00:44:27,567 --> 00:44:29,302 And we tried everything. 836 00:44:29,336 --> 00:44:30,770 Was the doctor good enough? 837 00:44:30,837 --> 00:44:32,472 Would they get the prescription right? 838 00:44:32,505 --> 00:44:34,307 Did they take insurance? 839 00:44:34,341 --> 00:44:35,909 I mean, of course we would have paid anything, 840 00:44:35,942 --> 00:44:38,345 but it was expensive. 841 00:44:38,378 --> 00:44:42,315 I'm just saying, this was the reality of how it was, 842 00:44:42,349 --> 00:44:44,217 how defeating, 843 00:44:44,284 --> 00:44:47,854 and even with all the professional advice, 844 00:44:47,887 --> 00:44:50,857 it came down to the two of us alone, 845 00:44:50,890 --> 00:44:52,392 making the choices. 846 00:44:52,459 --> 00:44:56,290 And we tried, over and over again. 847 00:44:56,620 --> 00:44:58,310 - You can see. - RICHARD: It's true. 848 00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:59,666 There is no new information 849 00:44:59,733 --> 00:45:01,801 regarding his criminal or medical records. 850 00:45:01,868 --> 00:45:03,403 You have access to everything. 851 00:45:03,470 --> 00:45:04,504 Why didn't you tell the school? 852 00:45:04,537 --> 00:45:06,172 This was high school. 853 00:45:09,376 --> 00:45:10,643 We didn't have to. 854 00:45:11,911 --> 00:45:13,460 LINDA: He had just started there... 855 00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:14,414 - What? - ...and... 856 00:45:16,490 --> 00:45:19,619 I didn't want it to reflect badly on him. 857 00:45:19,652 --> 00:45:21,870 If we thought he was dangerous... 858 00:45:21,121 --> 00:45:22,622 Oh, God. 859 00:45:23,990 --> 00:45:26,920 - I'm sorry. - As long as he completed 860 00:45:26,126 --> 00:45:27,327 - his program, his reports... - Jesus Christ. 861 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,229 The program was a joke. 862 00:45:29,262 --> 00:45:31,431 RICHARD: They made mistakes. They missed things. 863 00:45:31,498 --> 00:45:32,632 We all did. 864 00:45:34,501 --> 00:45:35,702 But he was lying. 865 00:45:36,503 --> 00:45:37,704 GAIL: What? 866 00:45:37,771 --> 00:45:39,539 Did you know that? 867 00:45:39,572 --> 00:45:43,760 I suspected that he was holding things back, 868 00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:45,578 but I never, never could have believed... 869 00:45:45,645 --> 00:45:47,547 RICHARD: I understand not speaking publicly 870 00:45:47,580 --> 00:45:48,848 made it look like we had secrets. 871 00:45:48,915 --> 00:45:50,817 I don't... I'm... It's not secrets 872 00:45:50,850 --> 00:45:53,720 that I have doubts about, though. 873 00:45:53,787 --> 00:45:57,991 Or facts. It's... Knowing. 874 00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:02,862 It's parents' intuition, hmm? 875 00:46:02,929 --> 00:46:05,231 You feel it. It should hurt you. 876 00:46:06,266 --> 00:46:07,367 LINDA: It did. 877 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,200 And we got him help. 878 00:46:09,350 --> 00:46:11,104 RICHARD: We didn't know. 879 00:46:11,137 --> 00:46:12,839 And everything that happened afterwards, 880 00:46:12,872 --> 00:46:14,574 the lawsuits, the media, 881 00:46:14,607 --> 00:46:17,577 the hate that flooded into our lives, 882 00:46:17,610 --> 00:46:21,181 never once did we feel ready or prepared for any of it. 883 00:46:21,247 --> 00:46:23,383 We just did the best to survive. 884 00:46:23,416 --> 00:46:24,818 So why not speak? 885 00:46:24,851 --> 00:46:26,619 Because I didn't have an answer. 886 00:46:26,686 --> 00:46:29,456 Why not help prevent this from happening again? 887 00:46:29,489 --> 00:46:30,757 Because I don't know how. 888 00:46:30,824 --> 00:46:32,992 JAY: That's why you didn't speak. 889 00:46:33,260 --> 00:46:35,729 You had no answers. No idea. 890 00:46:35,762 --> 00:46:40,500 Just understand that until the civil statutes ran out, 891 00:46:40,567 --> 00:46:42,469 we were rarely given permission to speak. 892 00:46:42,502 --> 00:46:46,206 Even our apologies had to be worded. 893 00:46:46,272 --> 00:46:47,907 Linda couldn't join a mothers' support group 894 00:46:47,974 --> 00:46:48,975 because they worried that 895 00:46:49,900 --> 00:46:50,510 she'd put the other women at risk. 896 00:46:50,577 --> 00:46:52,846 - At risk? - RICHARD: Of being deposed. 897 00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:55,148 I didn't know that. 898 00:47:07,927 --> 00:47:09,229 Well, look... 899 00:47:09,295 --> 00:47:10,930 [GAIL SIGHS] 900 00:47:10,997 --> 00:47:13,333 A lot of what happened in the aftermath was wrong. 901 00:47:14,768 --> 00:47:18,538 We know now a lot of mistakes were made, 902 00:47:18,605 --> 00:47:19,939 even from the beginning, 903 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,342 just institutionally, legally, everything. 904 00:47:23,376 --> 00:47:25,478 But we didn't sue 905 00:47:25,512 --> 00:47:27,800 and we're not gonna. 906 00:47:27,113 --> 00:47:30,250 We signed all those waivers for today. 907 00:47:32,218 --> 00:47:34,200 We didn't want anything. 908 00:47:34,540 --> 00:47:36,790 We wanted Evan back. 909 00:47:36,823 --> 00:47:40,600 JAY: Yeah, and that was impossible. 910 00:47:40,930 --> 00:47:43,229 In hindsight, we would have done things differently. 911 00:47:43,263 --> 00:47:46,266 The authorities would have, too. There was negligence. 912 00:47:46,332 --> 00:47:48,835 That was the basis of all the settlements, but... 913 00:47:51,905 --> 00:47:54,641 Where's your regret? 914 00:47:54,674 --> 00:47:57,430 That's what we want to see. Right? 915 00:47:57,770 --> 00:47:58,812 Where is your regret? 916 00:48:00,213 --> 00:48:01,348 RICHARD: I regret everything. 917 00:48:02,515 --> 00:48:05,719 The worst outcome imaginable happened. 918 00:48:05,785 --> 00:48:07,530 Any change I might have made 919 00:48:07,870 --> 00:48:08,521 could have resulted in a different outcome. 920 00:48:08,555 --> 00:48:10,423 I regret everything. 921 00:48:10,490 --> 00:48:11,991 How can you be so matter-of-fact? 922 00:48:12,580 --> 00:48:13,560 How else can I be? 923 00:48:13,593 --> 00:48:16,296 I don't know. The way you can just talk about it so... 924 00:48:17,497 --> 00:48:21,670 Look, we decided against litigation. 925 00:48:21,101 --> 00:48:24,170 But that doesn't mean that we don't 926 00:48:24,237 --> 00:48:27,107 want to see you in pain. 927 00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:29,876 We want to see you punished. 928 00:48:29,943 --> 00:48:31,711 We want to see that you hurt. 929 00:48:31,745 --> 00:48:33,513 - Like everyone else. - JAY: Like everyone else. 930 00:48:33,546 --> 00:48:35,982 - Like you. - Yeah, like me, like us. 931 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,885 Like our daughter, who doesn't sleep. 932 00:48:38,952 --> 00:48:39,986 GAIL: Jay... 933 00:48:45,258 --> 00:48:46,259 JAY: Fine. 934 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,565 Okay, he has this boy who makes a pipe bomb, 935 00:48:52,599 --> 00:48:54,834 a pipe bomb. 936 00:48:54,868 --> 00:48:57,270 And he's arrested. He was put in this program. 937 00:48:57,303 --> 00:48:58,538 I was scared. 938 00:49:00,540 --> 00:49:01,841 What? 939 00:49:04,611 --> 00:49:06,120 We were, Richard. 940 00:49:08,114 --> 00:49:09,149 We were scared. 941 00:49:11,317 --> 00:49:12,619 I was scared. 942 00:49:13,420 --> 00:49:14,921 You were? 943 00:49:14,988 --> 00:49:16,456 LINDA: I was. 944 00:49:16,489 --> 00:49:18,725 RICHARD: He told us before he had contemplated suicide. 945 00:49:18,758 --> 00:49:19,993 But it was only on that test 946 00:49:20,260 --> 00:49:21,928 that he mentioned thoughts of homicide. 947 00:49:21,995 --> 00:49:24,130 We were scared. 948 00:49:24,164 --> 00:49:26,766 But I was trying to see the best possible outcome. 949 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:28,680 We should have done something then. 950 00:49:28,134 --> 00:49:29,169 - RICHARD: Now... - We should have, 951 00:49:29,202 --> 00:49:30,303 we should have... 952 00:49:30,337 --> 00:49:33,390 RICHARD: Of course now, but what? 953 00:49:33,730 --> 00:49:35,608 And I couldn't accept that he would throw away his future 954 00:49:35,642 --> 00:49:37,944 because of a homemade bomb, Linda. Please. 955 00:49:38,110 --> 00:49:40,780 GAIL: Where did this interest in bombs come from? 956 00:49:40,814 --> 00:49:42,215 Didn't it surprise you at all? 957 00:49:42,248 --> 00:49:43,583 LINDA: Yes. RICHARD: We didn't know, 958 00:49:43,616 --> 00:49:45,318 anywhere. Yes. It surprised us. It shocked us. 959 00:49:45,352 --> 00:49:46,453 LINDA: He said he read it online. 960 00:49:46,486 --> 00:49:47,787 He said he was bored. 961 00:49:47,821 --> 00:49:49,550 RICHARD: He said it was just something to do. 962 00:49:49,890 --> 00:49:50,223 "I'm not the only one." 963 00:49:50,256 --> 00:49:52,625 - GAIL: What? - Yes, that's what he said. 964 00:49:52,659 --> 00:49:55,662 And once he'd made it, he figured he'd set it off. 965 00:49:55,695 --> 00:49:58,310 He went back to the woods. 966 00:49:58,640 --> 00:49:59,366 LINDA: Where we used to live. 967 00:49:59,399 --> 00:50:00,834 RICHARD: No one was around. 968 00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:02,802 He wasn't trying to... 969 00:50:02,836 --> 00:50:04,370 He didn't... 970 00:50:06,172 --> 00:50:09,542 We hoped it was what he said it was. 971 00:50:09,609 --> 00:50:12,412 Later on, when we found more plans in his room, 972 00:50:12,479 --> 00:50:16,216 he said there was good money in artillery engineering, 973 00:50:16,249 --> 00:50:17,517 working in the Defense Department. 974 00:50:17,550 --> 00:50:18,718 That was his excuse. 975 00:50:18,785 --> 00:50:20,253 You couldn't have believed that. 976 00:50:20,286 --> 00:50:21,521 RICHARD: We knew nothing about it. 977 00:50:21,554 --> 00:50:23,123 After everything, no. 978 00:50:23,189 --> 00:50:25,392 How could you have believed that? 979 00:50:25,425 --> 00:50:27,600 Because I wanted to. 980 00:50:28,962 --> 00:50:30,864 He told me things. 981 00:50:31,498 --> 00:50:32,499 He did. 982 00:50:34,401 --> 00:50:36,136 I thought he confided in me. 983 00:50:39,139 --> 00:50:43,376 But now I know that some of the things he told me were 984 00:50:43,410 --> 00:50:45,578 purposefully deceitful, 985 00:50:47,380 --> 00:50:48,648 to keep me away. 986 00:50:51,651 --> 00:50:54,454 We really did think he was turning things around. 987 00:50:55,455 --> 00:50:57,257 We had plans for the summer. 988 00:50:58,158 --> 00:50:59,325 For college. 989 00:51:00,727 --> 00:51:01,728 [GRUNTS SOFTLY] 990 00:51:03,290 --> 00:51:07,567 We were told that once... 991 00:51:10,303 --> 00:51:11,604 [LINDA SIGHS] 992 00:51:11,671 --> 00:51:13,707 I'm sorry. 993 00:51:13,740 --> 00:51:16,676 ...once someone decides their fate, 994 00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:18,778 they do find some happiness. 995 00:51:19,979 --> 00:51:21,848 They can even appear euphoric. 996 00:51:22,482 --> 00:51:24,284 [SOBS] 997 00:51:24,317 --> 00:51:27,987 Those last few months, we were happy. 998 00:51:30,690 --> 00:51:32,250 [SOBS] 999 00:51:33,590 --> 00:51:35,195 He checked off homicidal thoughts. 1000 00:51:35,261 --> 00:51:36,896 RICHARD: His therapist said that was normal. 1001 00:51:36,930 --> 00:51:37,997 GAIL: Normal? 1002 00:51:38,310 --> 00:51:39,366 RICHARD: For a young man to be angry. 1003 00:51:39,432 --> 00:51:42,335 Why ask the question if you choose to ignore it? 1004 00:51:42,369 --> 00:51:44,437 Your neighbor called the police. 1005 00:51:44,471 --> 00:51:46,600 He called us, not the police. 1006 00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:47,173 About a year before. 1007 00:51:47,907 --> 00:51:49,376 That was a bad night. 1008 00:51:49,442 --> 00:51:50,744 We would try to calm him down, 1009 00:51:50,777 --> 00:51:54,347 minimize whatever it was that was bothering him. 1010 00:51:54,381 --> 00:51:55,782 I think that, in the end, 1011 00:51:55,815 --> 00:51:58,151 it may have only intensified his feelings. 1012 00:52:00,286 --> 00:52:01,621 He could be frightening. 1013 00:52:01,654 --> 00:52:04,357 RICHARD: He would get frustrated, easily. 1014 00:52:04,391 --> 00:52:06,793 Frustrated with things he couldn't figure out. 1015 00:52:06,826 --> 00:52:08,762 And that would... 1016 00:52:08,795 --> 00:52:10,630 - Embarrass him. - RICHARD: Yes. 1017 00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,767 And it was always hard for him to ask for help. 1018 00:52:15,301 --> 00:52:18,104 But eventually, he just... [CLEARS THROAT] 1019 00:52:18,171 --> 00:52:20,540 ...stopped asking entirely. 1020 00:52:25,111 --> 00:52:28,748 Maybe my expectations for him were too high. 1021 00:52:28,782 --> 00:52:33,787 I'd let it go, thinking not to bother him. 1022 00:52:33,820 --> 00:52:35,221 But then, I... 1023 00:52:38,324 --> 00:52:40,226 I'd just be letting him go. 1024 00:52:45,331 --> 00:52:46,533 [LINDA SOBS] 1025 00:52:48,535 --> 00:52:50,370 RICHARD: Look, I've done my accounting. 1026 00:52:50,403 --> 00:52:52,105 There isn't a criticism I haven't heard 1027 00:52:52,138 --> 00:52:54,374 or placed upon myself. 1028 00:52:54,407 --> 00:52:56,543 We were not impassive, as you've said. 1029 00:52:56,576 --> 00:52:57,777 - What...? - RICHARD: Indifferent. 1030 00:52:57,811 --> 00:52:59,412 You didn't speak out. You said nothing. 1031 00:52:59,446 --> 00:53:02,282 - We released a statement. - JAY: That's bullshit. 1032 00:53:02,349 --> 00:53:03,817 "Thoughts and prayers." That's it? 1033 00:53:03,850 --> 00:53:05,385 When we asked for privacy, 1034 00:53:05,418 --> 00:53:06,886 we were accused of hiding something. 1035 00:53:06,953 --> 00:53:09,289 You didn't deserve privacy. You don't deserve privacy. 1036 00:53:09,356 --> 00:53:11,157 You should have said something. 1037 00:53:11,224 --> 00:53:12,559 What should we say? 1038 00:53:12,592 --> 00:53:13,793 - I'm asking you. - JAY: You... 1039 00:53:13,827 --> 00:53:15,280 No, I'm asking you. No. 1040 00:53:15,950 --> 00:53:16,363 - No, no. What would we say? - I don't know. 1041 00:53:16,396 --> 00:53:17,464 You said that when it happened, you weren't... 1042 00:53:17,530 --> 00:53:18,531 I'm asking you. What should we say? 1043 00:53:18,565 --> 00:53:19,833 That when it happened, 1044 00:53:19,866 --> 00:53:21,668 - that some part of you knew. - LINDA: No. 1045 00:53:21,701 --> 00:53:23,903 What should we say? 1046 00:53:23,970 --> 00:53:25,171 That when it happened, 1047 00:53:25,238 --> 00:53:27,907 that some part of you wasn't surprised. 1048 00:53:27,974 --> 00:53:29,476 We were surprised. 1049 00:53:31,478 --> 00:53:33,446 We didn't know what happened. 1050 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:34,981 I still don't know. 1051 00:53:35,150 --> 00:53:38,184 I came home from work and the phone rang. 1052 00:53:38,251 --> 00:53:43,490 His friend called the house to see if he was there. 1053 00:53:43,556 --> 00:53:45,925 I said, "Aren't you both in school?" 1054 00:53:45,992 --> 00:53:47,727 I didn't... 1055 00:53:47,761 --> 00:53:50,330 He said he hadn't seen Hayden all day, 1056 00:53:50,397 --> 00:53:51,765 that something happened. 1057 00:53:51,831 --> 00:53:53,500 Something was happening. 1058 00:53:53,566 --> 00:53:55,568 I had no idea... 1059 00:53:55,602 --> 00:53:57,637 Even when I turned on the television. 1060 00:53:57,704 --> 00:54:01,700 I saw the school from above. 1061 00:54:01,410 --> 00:54:02,876 I... I... 1062 00:54:02,909 --> 00:54:05,645 ...what he could have been talking about. 1063 00:54:05,712 --> 00:54:07,180 We didn't know. 1064 00:54:10,500 --> 00:54:12,619 His friend. This was Alex. Right? 1065 00:54:12,652 --> 00:54:14,354 - RICHARD: Yes. - Yeah. Who knew. 1066 00:54:14,421 --> 00:54:16,890 No. He suspected. 1067 00:54:16,156 --> 00:54:17,590 JAY: They were his father's guns. 1068 00:54:17,624 --> 00:54:19,759 He didn't know Hayden had taken them. 1069 00:54:19,793 --> 00:54:22,595 He thought... He thought to ask you to go look. 1070 00:54:22,629 --> 00:54:23,763 So he must have thought about it... 1071 00:54:23,797 --> 00:54:25,865 RICHARD: He asked because it had happened. 1072 00:54:25,899 --> 00:54:28,201 He was there. None of us knew yet. 1073 00:54:28,234 --> 00:54:29,502 "Go and look in his bedroom." 1074 00:54:29,536 --> 00:54:31,710 - He said... The closet. - Yes. Yes. 1075 00:54:31,104 --> 00:54:32,305 It was Alex. 1076 00:54:32,339 --> 00:54:34,207 He said he wasn't answering his phone 1077 00:54:34,240 --> 00:54:35,342 and that no one had seen him, 1078 00:54:35,375 --> 00:54:36,776 could I check? 1079 00:54:36,810 --> 00:54:39,646 Yes. I didn't understand what I was even looking for. 1080 00:54:39,679 --> 00:54:41,614 I thought he would tell me. 1081 00:54:41,648 --> 00:54:45,685 He just kept crying and saying, "I'm sorry." 1082 00:54:45,752 --> 00:54:47,787 I thought he did something. 1083 00:54:47,821 --> 00:54:48,822 We all did. 1084 00:54:52,192 --> 00:54:55,395 None of us knew that Alex's family had guns 1085 00:54:55,462 --> 00:54:57,230 or that Hayden had used them. 1086 00:54:57,263 --> 00:54:59,833 We learned all of that after. 1087 00:54:59,899 --> 00:55:02,369 Where were you when...? 1088 00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:08,575 RICHARD: I was working. 1089 00:55:11,110 --> 00:55:12,912 I have events out of order, 1090 00:55:13,980 --> 00:55:15,150 apparently. 1091 00:55:15,810 --> 00:55:16,820 [LINDA SOBS] 1092 00:55:16,583 --> 00:55:18,118 Um... 1093 00:55:19,586 --> 00:55:22,722 A friend, a colleague, called me out of my office, 1094 00:55:22,789 --> 00:55:25,392 - and the television was on... - JAY: Wait, wait. Stop. Stop. 1095 00:55:25,425 --> 00:55:28,940 We don't wanna hear... We don't need to hear this. 1096 00:55:28,128 --> 00:55:29,596 We just want to know why you didn't do something, 1097 00:55:29,662 --> 00:55:30,864 why you couldn't say something. 1098 00:55:30,930 --> 00:55:32,980 GAIL: I want to. 1099 00:55:32,132 --> 00:55:34,234 - What? - I want to hear. 1100 00:55:34,267 --> 00:55:35,602 JAY: What's the point? Why? 1101 00:55:35,668 --> 00:55:38,138 I know. I want to hear. 1102 00:55:48,548 --> 00:55:49,716 I called you. 1103 00:55:49,749 --> 00:55:51,510 Yes. But it was... 1104 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:53,586 hard for us to speak. 1105 00:55:53,620 --> 00:55:55,522 LINDA: I tried, but I couldn't. 1106 00:55:55,555 --> 00:55:59,426 I could tell. So I feared the worst. 1107 00:56:00,527 --> 00:56:01,895 But I hadn't... 1108 00:56:03,563 --> 00:56:06,900 You said, "He was never here." 1109 00:56:06,966 --> 00:56:09,135 LINDA: His room. It was... 1110 00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:11,571 His bed was made, 1111 00:56:11,604 --> 00:56:15,775 and there was this notebook on his pillow. 1112 00:56:15,842 --> 00:56:18,211 I'd never seen it before. 1113 00:56:18,278 --> 00:56:21,881 It was worn and marked. 1114 00:56:22,749 --> 00:56:25,452 Oh, I was so scared. 1115 00:56:25,485 --> 00:56:28,922 It must have been there all day, all night. 1116 00:56:28,988 --> 00:56:32,726 I didn't know what she had seen yet. 1117 00:56:32,759 --> 00:56:34,600 I was just trying to get home. 1118 00:56:34,940 --> 00:56:36,663 And at one point, I thought, 1119 00:56:36,730 --> 00:56:40,667 "Why am I going home? I need to get to the school." 1120 00:56:41,901 --> 00:56:45,772 And then I got a call from my sister. 1121 00:56:45,805 --> 00:56:48,908 She kept telling me to pull over, 1122 00:56:48,942 --> 00:56:50,430 and I said I will not. 1123 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,813 I would not stop driving, and then 1124 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:55,949 we were both crying. 1125 00:56:57,183 --> 00:56:58,251 So I just... 1126 00:57:01,921 --> 00:57:03,390 I don't remember. 1127 00:57:05,225 --> 00:57:06,760 I pulled on to our street, 1128 00:57:06,793 --> 00:57:10,897 and I guess that's where I wanted to go, and... 1129 00:57:10,930 --> 00:57:12,766 - But I was too late. - Hmm. 1130 00:57:12,799 --> 00:57:14,934 Hundreds of them, all in black. 1131 00:57:14,968 --> 00:57:17,704 So sudden, and helicopters... 1132 00:57:17,771 --> 00:57:18,938 Couldn't get near our driveway, 1133 00:57:18,972 --> 00:57:20,607 so I just left the car. 1134 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:22,342 I still don't know who moved it back. 1135 00:57:22,375 --> 00:57:23,376 Yeah. 1136 00:57:25,245 --> 00:57:26,713 They kept us apart. 1137 00:57:26,780 --> 00:57:30,717 They made me wait outside while they searched the house. 1138 00:57:32,152 --> 00:57:34,654 They kept me in the backyard. 1139 00:57:34,688 --> 00:57:38,792 I kept saying it was a mistake. It was... 1140 00:57:38,825 --> 00:57:42,996 There was a young policeman watching me 1141 00:57:43,630 --> 00:57:44,531 to make sure I didn't, 1142 00:57:44,564 --> 00:57:47,834 I learned this after, hurt myself. 1143 00:57:48,835 --> 00:57:52,305 Finally, I said, "Is my son dead?" 1144 00:57:56,976 --> 00:57:59,646 [SNIFFLES] And he said, 1145 00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:02,150 not unkindly, 1146 00:58:02,820 --> 00:58:03,149 "Yes." 1147 00:58:04,284 --> 00:58:06,252 "But that's all I can tell you." 1148 00:58:07,253 --> 00:58:08,555 As if... [SCOFFS] 1149 00:58:13,126 --> 00:58:15,662 RICHARD: It was wrong what they did, keeping us apart. 1150 00:58:15,695 --> 00:58:17,297 It was wrong. 1151 00:58:17,330 --> 00:58:19,132 LINDA: It was, Richard. 1152 00:58:19,165 --> 00:58:21,768 RICHARD: Yeah, they didn't have to. 1153 00:58:21,835 --> 00:58:25,739 I kept asking, demanding, to see my wife. 1154 00:58:28,608 --> 00:58:30,176 I begged, Linda. 1155 00:58:31,311 --> 00:58:33,213 It's not our fault, Richard. 1156 00:58:34,180 --> 00:58:35,448 It was wrong. 1157 00:58:36,216 --> 00:58:37,450 It was. 1158 00:58:45,580 --> 00:58:47,627 There were many times I wished he had killed me too. 1159 00:58:47,694 --> 00:58:50,130 But he loved us. 1160 00:58:51,765 --> 00:58:54,000 He told us. 1161 00:58:54,340 --> 00:58:57,604 He said he was sorry for what he would put us through. 1162 00:58:58,571 --> 00:59:00,730 RICHARD: In his notebook. 1163 00:59:00,140 --> 00:59:01,141 JAY: Yeah. 1164 00:59:02,709 --> 00:59:04,611 He destroyed your lives. 1165 00:59:05,478 --> 00:59:06,813 All of our lives. 1166 00:59:11,584 --> 00:59:14,621 He did. But the love we had, 1167 00:59:15,188 --> 00:59:18,758 it was real! 1168 00:59:18,792 --> 00:59:22,962 And the truth is, we believed we were good parents. 1169 00:59:23,290 --> 00:59:28,668 And in some awful, confusing way, we still do. 1170 00:59:28,735 --> 00:59:32,372 Isn't it worse that I thought I was a good mother? [SOBS] 1171 00:59:33,730 --> 00:59:35,375 I love my children. 1172 00:59:35,408 --> 00:59:37,243 Other parents... I wasn't so different. 1173 00:59:37,277 --> 00:59:39,479 How did I do things so differently? 1174 00:59:41,281 --> 00:59:43,616 That makes it... 1175 00:59:43,650 --> 00:59:47,854 It's very hard to trust anything anymore. 1176 00:59:48,722 --> 00:59:50,490 I raised a murderer. 1177 00:59:52,926 --> 00:59:55,295 [SNIFFLES] And sometimes I... 1178 00:59:57,430 --> 00:59:59,199 I don't know if I'm still grieving 1179 00:59:59,232 --> 01:00:02,100 or if I ever really have. 1180 01:00:04,204 --> 01:00:06,373 The service was in secret. 1181 01:00:06,406 --> 01:00:09,642 No local church would memorialize him. 1182 01:00:09,676 --> 01:00:13,713 Richard had to beg to bury his son. 1183 01:00:13,747 --> 01:00:18,685 And when we finally found a place, I was so ashamed. 1184 01:00:19,319 --> 01:00:21,688 Their kindness... 1185 01:00:21,721 --> 01:00:25,425 You're supposed to tell stories. We hid. 1186 01:00:25,458 --> 01:00:28,128 Many friends, our friends, didn't know what to say. 1187 01:00:28,161 --> 01:00:29,963 - They didn't come. - No. 1188 01:00:29,996 --> 01:00:32,966 We had our closest relatives with us, good friends. 1189 01:00:32,999 --> 01:00:35,350 I remember looking at the clock. 1190 01:00:37,270 --> 01:00:40,340 We were so overwhelmed with blame. 1191 01:00:40,407 --> 01:00:43,143 Our financial situation was impossible. 1192 01:00:44,344 --> 01:00:49,783 Grief felt like something out of reach. 1193 01:00:51,451 --> 01:00:54,154 I didn't stop him because I didn't know. 1194 01:00:54,888 --> 01:00:55,922 And I didn't say anything 1195 01:00:55,989 --> 01:00:58,358 because I didn't know what to say. 1196 01:01:00,260 --> 01:01:01,361 And I'm sorry. 1197 01:01:02,929 --> 01:01:06,599 I never thought I had enough good to say. 1198 01:01:09,803 --> 01:01:11,738 I want answers. I do. 1199 01:01:12,872 --> 01:01:16,309 I have to reconcile his actions 1200 01:01:16,343 --> 01:01:19,446 with the child I loved and raised. 1201 01:01:23,483 --> 01:01:25,180 But maybe there are none. 1202 01:01:26,953 --> 01:01:29,456 And maybe we're the last people to ask. 1203 01:01:33,827 --> 01:01:36,296 [INHALES DEEPLY] "We know the hate." 1204 01:01:38,310 --> 01:01:39,766 [SIGHING DEEPLY] 1205 01:01:39,799 --> 01:01:41,534 Joy Murphy's parents used to say that. 1206 01:01:41,601 --> 01:01:43,770 Remember their church? 1207 01:01:43,803 --> 01:01:46,673 "We need not know why the hate for we know the hate," 1208 01:01:46,740 --> 01:01:48,775 or some stupid thing. 1209 01:01:48,808 --> 01:01:50,510 Are these for us? 1210 01:01:50,543 --> 01:01:51,845 I'm sure it's all right. 1211 01:01:51,911 --> 01:01:53,680 Does anybody want one? 1212 01:01:53,747 --> 01:01:56,820 - No, thank you. - I can't breathe in this room. 1213 01:01:56,983 --> 01:01:58,418 [GULPING LOUDLY] 1214 01:01:59,753 --> 01:02:00,920 Ah. 1215 01:02:00,954 --> 01:02:02,922 That whole church movement thing afterwards 1216 01:02:02,956 --> 01:02:04,224 made me so angry. 1217 01:02:05,125 --> 01:02:07,600 What? The devil? 1218 01:02:07,930 --> 01:02:08,128 Really? 1219 01:02:08,762 --> 01:02:10,530 Meaningless. 1220 01:02:10,563 --> 01:02:11,965 Trust the Catholic Church to come up 1221 01:02:11,998 --> 01:02:13,666 with the most bankrupt response. 1222 01:02:14,334 --> 01:02:15,869 Sorry. 1223 01:02:15,935 --> 01:02:17,804 This is an Episcopal Church. 1224 01:02:19,973 --> 01:02:22,542 Okay, I don't know. I'm... 1225 01:02:22,575 --> 01:02:26,112 I'm Christian. I'm not religious. 1226 01:02:29,516 --> 01:02:31,384 Ah. 1227 01:02:31,418 --> 01:02:33,286 They recycle here or...? 1228 01:02:33,353 --> 01:02:34,954 Just leave it. 1229 01:02:34,988 --> 01:02:36,589 - [BOTTLE THUDS] - [TRASH CAN CLANGS] 1230 01:02:38,525 --> 01:02:40,226 Huh! 1231 01:02:40,260 --> 01:02:42,862 At least they found acceptance first. 1232 01:02:42,896 --> 01:02:46,299 Yeah. At least they understood it for... 1233 01:02:47,801 --> 01:02:49,200 I don't know. 1234 01:02:50,870 --> 01:02:53,840 But for the rest of us who need reason, 1235 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:56,876 we need to look at what he was. 1236 01:02:56,910 --> 01:02:59,879 We knew he was troubled, just not how capable. 1237 01:02:59,913 --> 01:03:01,481 I believe you. You didn't... 1238 01:03:02,549 --> 01:03:04,884 I'm asking because 1239 01:03:04,918 --> 01:03:07,120 a psychiatrist told us afterwards 1240 01:03:07,153 --> 01:03:09,422 that he wouldn't have shared his problems. 1241 01:03:09,456 --> 01:03:11,424 That he probably couldn't. That... 1242 01:03:11,458 --> 01:03:13,259 LINDA: We thought he might with his friends. 1243 01:03:13,293 --> 01:03:14,761 We asked him to. 1244 01:03:14,828 --> 01:03:17,597 He finally started making friends again, in high school. 1245 01:03:17,630 --> 01:03:18,631 He found a good group. 1246 01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:22,350 [SCOFFS] A good group? 1247 01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:23,870 Alex, who showed him where his family's guns were? 1248 01:03:23,903 --> 01:03:25,710 Hayden stole those guns. 1249 01:03:25,138 --> 01:03:26,406 His friends had nothing to do with it. 1250 01:03:26,439 --> 01:03:28,508 That group that went to the gun ranges, 1251 01:03:28,575 --> 01:03:32,645 that sat up all day and night playing Call of Duty. 1252 01:03:32,712 --> 01:03:35,915 RICHARD: It's a video game. They're simulations. 1253 01:03:35,949 --> 01:03:37,317 And how many visits to the gun range? 1254 01:03:37,350 --> 01:03:39,719 - Only two. - No, that we know of. 1255 01:03:39,753 --> 01:03:41,321 And any... You don't need to go anymore 1256 01:03:41,354 --> 01:03:42,756 with these games now. 1257 01:03:42,789 --> 01:03:46,226 If you'd allow me to finish addressing your point, 1258 01:03:46,292 --> 01:03:49,929 I'm just saying that by the end of his life, 1259 01:03:49,963 --> 01:03:53,933 whatever was going on inside, he seemed popular, 1260 01:03:53,967 --> 01:03:55,368 - for him, in his circle. - Fine. Sure. 1261 01:03:55,435 --> 01:03:57,904 Okay, but I'm talking about something different. 1262 01:03:57,937 --> 01:03:59,372 And I'm just saying 1263 01:03:59,439 --> 01:04:01,741 that we couldn't know how isolated he was 1264 01:04:01,775 --> 01:04:03,910 because he was popular. 1265 01:04:03,943 --> 01:04:05,945 Or not... That's not the right word, I know. 1266 01:04:05,979 --> 01:04:09,215 But we couldn't know the level of intimacy in his social life 1267 01:04:09,249 --> 01:04:10,617 from where he had been. 1268 01:04:10,650 --> 01:04:13,530 We were just happy for him to have a social life. 1269 01:04:13,860 --> 01:04:15,188 Okay. That isolation... 1270 01:04:15,221 --> 01:04:17,624 But he was bullied in high school. 1271 01:04:17,657 --> 01:04:18,892 LINDA: Not by his friends. 1272 01:04:18,925 --> 01:04:20,326 But still. 1273 01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:21,695 They all told the police 1274 01:04:21,761 --> 01:04:23,797 how often he talked about killing certain students. 1275 01:04:23,830 --> 01:04:25,965 They said they all talked like that. 1276 01:04:25,999 --> 01:04:28,768 His group of friends experienced a lot of bullying. 1277 01:04:28,802 --> 01:04:30,537 JAY: Well, that's fine. I don't care. 1278 01:04:30,570 --> 01:04:33,840 Sorry. If I could just get this out. 1279 01:04:33,907 --> 01:04:36,109 That isolation, that... 1280 01:04:36,142 --> 01:04:38,812 Even with friends, that detachment, 1281 01:04:38,845 --> 01:04:42,982 sometimes indicative of a lack of feeling, of empathy. 1282 01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,719 Now add to that thousands of hours online 1283 01:04:45,785 --> 01:04:47,287 and no real human contact. 1284 01:04:47,354 --> 01:04:49,556 I'm just... This is how the psychiatrist explained it. 1285 01:04:49,589 --> 01:04:51,591 We understand the psychology. 1286 01:04:51,658 --> 01:04:54,940 Okay, then, maybe you know about the studies 1287 01:04:54,127 --> 01:04:56,796 using fMRI, brain scans, 1288 01:04:56,830 --> 01:04:58,665 where they say they can see a response, 1289 01:04:58,698 --> 01:05:01,501 or lack of response, in the brain. 1290 01:05:01,534 --> 01:05:03,200 There's actually less connections, 1291 01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,573 less matter in the prefrontal cortex and the amygdala. 1292 01:05:06,606 --> 01:05:08,541 GAIL: Jay, Jay... JAY: No, please, wait. 1293 01:05:08,575 --> 01:05:09,576 I'm just... 1294 01:05:11,511 --> 01:05:12,545 Have you heard of mirror neurons? 1295 01:05:12,579 --> 01:05:14,314 Jesus, Jay, we're not qualified. 1296 01:05:14,381 --> 01:05:17,851 I'm not an expert, okay, but I'm trying... I think... 1297 01:05:19,185 --> 01:05:20,553 This could be helpful. 1298 01:05:20,587 --> 01:05:22,389 I don't know, the basic idea. 1299 01:05:22,422 --> 01:05:23,723 If we could have seen, 1300 01:05:23,757 --> 01:05:26,292 we could have been able to predict something. 1301 01:05:26,326 --> 01:05:27,460 You know, the doctors, 1302 01:05:27,527 --> 01:05:29,195 with these tests, what they can show... 1303 01:05:29,262 --> 01:05:30,296 RICHARD: I know. 1304 01:05:30,330 --> 01:05:31,765 They show certain pictures or words 1305 01:05:31,831 --> 01:05:33,330 that should generate a response, 1306 01:05:33,660 --> 01:05:34,167 an emotion or a feeling, 1307 01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,602 but they don't. 1308 01:05:35,635 --> 01:05:38,972 Exactly. And people diagnosed with psychopathy... 1309 01:05:39,500 --> 01:05:41,410 - My son was empathetic. - [SIGHS] 1310 01:05:41,740 --> 01:05:43,900 RICHARD: He felt a great deal. 1311 01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:44,277 JAY: Well, maybe he was. 1312 01:05:44,310 --> 01:05:45,178 Maybe you didn't know what he was feeling. 1313 01:05:45,211 --> 01:05:46,446 Maybe he was hiding things. 1314 01:05:46,479 --> 01:05:48,615 My son was not a psychopath. 1315 01:05:48,648 --> 01:05:50,283 He was in terrible pain. 1316 01:05:50,316 --> 01:05:52,419 Maybe not treatable, right? 1317 01:05:52,452 --> 01:05:55,550 Because did anything ever work? 1318 01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:56,723 I mean, how many medication? Drugs? 1319 01:05:56,756 --> 01:05:59,359 I mean, if it's in the structure of the brain, 1320 01:05:59,426 --> 01:06:01,895 you know, then it's not just pathological, it's physical. 1321 01:06:01,928 --> 01:06:03,296 I understand what you want to say. 1322 01:06:03,329 --> 01:06:05,498 So that it's not high school, 1323 01:06:05,565 --> 01:06:07,667 middle school, moving, whatever. 1324 01:06:08,902 --> 01:06:10,360 It's him. 1325 01:06:13,740 --> 01:06:16,109 Do you remember Evan as a baby? 1326 01:06:19,779 --> 01:06:23,516 I feel Hayden as my baby every day. 1327 01:06:23,583 --> 01:06:25,218 His helplessness. 1328 01:06:25,251 --> 01:06:28,922 His crying, then his smile. 1329 01:06:30,123 --> 01:06:32,250 I don't believe in what you're saying. 1330 01:06:32,580 --> 01:06:34,894 GAIL: Linda, something must have happened. 1331 01:06:34,928 --> 01:06:37,130 - RICHARD: There was no abuse. - Not just abuse. 1332 01:06:37,197 --> 01:06:39,799 RICHARD: Neglect? We were there whenever we could be. 1333 01:06:39,833 --> 01:06:42,135 And sometimes, you can't be. I know that. 1334 01:06:42,202 --> 01:06:45,972 But we have to correct their course 1335 01:06:46,390 --> 01:06:47,730 when we do have them. 1336 01:06:47,107 --> 01:06:48,341 RICHARD: So we failed. 1337 01:06:48,375 --> 01:06:50,477 I know that. 1338 01:06:50,510 --> 01:06:53,413 And I did everything to try to correct it. 1339 01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:56,216 And I'd give anything if I could be there with him. 1340 01:06:56,249 --> 01:06:57,283 You were there. 1341 01:06:57,350 --> 01:06:58,551 RICHARD: If I could have known. 1342 01:07:00,487 --> 01:07:01,721 But maybe nobody could have broken through. 1343 01:07:01,788 --> 01:07:02,856 Maybe he wasn't capable... 1344 01:07:02,922 --> 01:07:04,157 No! 1345 01:07:06,126 --> 01:07:10,630 Bipolar disorder, depression, mania, ADHD, 1346 01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,132 possible schizoaffective disorder. 1347 01:07:12,165 --> 01:07:13,500 None of that is psychopathy. 1348 01:07:13,533 --> 01:07:15,680 You don't know what you're talking about. 1349 01:07:15,101 --> 01:07:16,436 If you take the medical records 1350 01:07:16,503 --> 01:07:17,671 with the criminal report, 1351 01:07:17,704 --> 01:07:19,706 which, now finally we have the full report, 1352 01:07:19,739 --> 01:07:21,441 don't you have to weigh the evidence, 1353 01:07:21,508 --> 01:07:22,976 the facts of what he did, 1354 01:07:23,900 --> 01:07:25,780 against your personal relationship history with him? 1355 01:07:25,111 --> 01:07:27,130 He became those things. 1356 01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:28,848 He wasn't always those things. 1357 01:07:28,882 --> 01:07:30,684 Well, you can trace how far back 1358 01:07:30,717 --> 01:07:32,180 to when he started planning it. 1359 01:07:32,850 --> 01:07:33,687 We can trace his footsteps, for Christ's sake. 1360 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,210 RICHARD: I don't think the timeline 1361 01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:36,156 definitively proves anything 1362 01:07:36,189 --> 01:07:37,290 about his mental state. 1363 01:07:37,323 --> 01:07:38,658 JAY: How can you say that? 1364 01:07:38,692 --> 01:07:41,528 We're not denying what he did or who he became. 1365 01:07:41,561 --> 01:07:43,997 Well, I can't help but hear you blame 1366 01:07:44,300 --> 01:07:45,899 a not abnormal child. 1367 01:07:45,965 --> 01:07:47,467 He was my son. 1368 01:07:47,534 --> 01:07:49,335 I can't remove my feelings 1369 01:07:49,402 --> 01:07:50,770 from our history or his records. 1370 01:07:50,837 --> 01:07:52,205 I'm not asking you to. 1371 01:07:52,272 --> 01:07:54,774 I'm saying that what he did, his capacity for murder, 1372 01:07:54,841 --> 01:07:58,110 was probably potentially there a long time 1373 01:07:58,440 --> 01:07:59,312 before anyone could have known. 1374 01:07:59,346 --> 01:08:01,181 You think you can attach one word to something 1375 01:08:01,214 --> 01:08:03,160 in order to understand it? 1376 01:08:03,490 --> 01:08:04,451 To make you feel safe? 1377 01:08:05,318 --> 01:08:07,530 Well, I won't say it. 1378 01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:08,154 I don't believe it. 1379 01:08:08,188 --> 01:08:09,422 It's not simple. 1380 01:08:09,456 --> 01:08:12,192 It's everything you cannot see. 1381 01:08:12,225 --> 01:08:14,561 And it left him helpless. He was helpless. 1382 01:08:14,594 --> 01:08:16,730 GAIL: But it's our job to help. 1383 01:08:16,763 --> 01:08:18,898 That's our job. And at some point, 1384 01:08:18,932 --> 01:08:20,867 it doesn't matter whether or not you see the signs. 1385 01:08:20,900 --> 01:08:23,169 We still... It's still our obligation. 1386 01:08:23,203 --> 01:08:24,738 I said I failed. 1387 01:08:24,771 --> 01:08:27,807 Maybe you didn't know who you were dealing with. 1388 01:08:27,874 --> 01:08:30,760 Look, the report speaks for itself. 1389 01:08:30,143 --> 01:08:32,780 He was gone by then. He was. 1390 01:08:32,145 --> 01:08:33,947 I mean, the deliberate choices. 1391 01:08:34,140 --> 01:08:35,749 - He did not target. - What? 1392 01:08:35,782 --> 01:08:37,217 - What...? - JAY: What are you ta... What? 1393 01:08:37,250 --> 01:08:38,251 What difference does that make? 1394 01:08:38,318 --> 01:08:39,586 He would have said so. 1395 01:08:39,619 --> 01:08:41,488 What? Well, how is that better? 1396 01:08:41,521 --> 01:08:43,189 What? What do you mean, he did not target? 1397 01:08:43,223 --> 01:08:44,324 He never met any of them. 1398 01:08:44,357 --> 01:08:47,930 Jesus Christ. Oh, it was his school. 1399 01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:48,328 His students. 1400 01:08:48,361 --> 01:08:49,229 RICHARD: He'd never been in that classroom. 1401 01:08:49,262 --> 01:08:50,497 JAY: He wanted to kill them. 1402 01:08:50,530 --> 01:08:52,532 Those students, they weren't in his grade. 1403 01:08:52,599 --> 01:08:54,670 - Evan... - Don't. No, no, don't. 1404 01:08:54,100 --> 01:08:55,235 - RICHARD: I'm just saying... - Just don't. 1405 01:08:55,268 --> 01:08:56,836 RICHARD: I'm just saying. JAY: Well, don't. 1406 01:08:56,903 --> 01:08:58,371 - Okay. - He didn't know them. 1407 01:08:58,405 --> 01:09:00,974 - He wanted them to suffer. - Oh, Jay. 1408 01:09:01,410 --> 01:09:03,476 - RICHARD: But not... - What? 1409 01:09:03,510 --> 01:09:06,613 Intentionally? Is that what you were gonna say? 1410 01:09:06,646 --> 01:09:10,550 He didn't seek to make any one individual suffer. 1411 01:09:10,617 --> 01:09:14,870 [SCOFFS] Well, my son suffered. 1412 01:09:15,188 --> 01:09:17,857 Evan suffered so much, and he let him. 1413 01:09:17,924 --> 01:09:19,359 RICHARD: I'm sorry. Both of you. 1414 01:09:19,392 --> 01:09:21,940 - JAY: No... - I know what happened. 1415 01:09:21,127 --> 01:09:22,362 - Wait. - JAY: No, you don't. 1416 01:09:22,395 --> 01:09:24,497 He did the most awful thing I've ever known, 1417 01:09:24,531 --> 01:09:25,932 but I know the report. 1418 01:09:25,965 --> 01:09:29,269 No! You do not know how my son died! 1419 01:09:42,315 --> 01:09:43,550 God. 1420 01:09:48,955 --> 01:09:51,691 He entered Evan's classroom at 1:29 p.m. 1421 01:09:51,725 --> 01:09:54,427 He threw a bomb into the center of the desks. 1422 01:09:54,461 --> 01:09:55,795 He started shooting. 1423 01:09:55,829 --> 01:09:57,297 He stayed there for half a minute. 1424 01:09:57,330 --> 01:09:59,599 [STUTTERS] He could have killed them all. 1425 01:09:59,666 --> 01:10:03,236 He chose not to. He watched them. 1426 01:10:03,269 --> 01:10:05,472 They saw his face. They saw him looking. 1427 01:10:06,973 --> 01:10:08,575 He knew Evan was alive. 1428 01:10:08,608 --> 01:10:11,678 He knew exactly who was alive and who was dead when he left. 1429 01:10:11,711 --> 01:10:13,446 We could never see into that classroom. 1430 01:10:13,480 --> 01:10:15,715 JAY: No, he suffered. 1431 01:10:16,483 --> 01:10:19,185 Six minutes. 1432 01:10:19,252 --> 01:10:22,622 Six minutes later, he comes back, 1433 01:10:22,689 --> 01:10:24,491 your son, he retraces his steps. 1434 01:10:24,557 --> 01:10:25,759 He's in the hallway again. 1435 01:10:25,825 --> 01:10:30,430 1:35, he's come back to finish. 1436 01:10:30,463 --> 01:10:31,931 And Evan is there. 1437 01:10:32,732 --> 01:10:35,835 The last gunshot, 1:36, 1438 01:10:35,869 --> 01:10:37,604 goes into my son's... [VOICE BREAKS] 1439 01:10:39,472 --> 01:10:40,607 neck. 1440 01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:41,875 Into his artery. 1441 01:10:41,908 --> 01:10:45,445 - Jay... - No. Six minutes. 1442 01:10:45,478 --> 01:10:48,810 He was alive. He was trying to get out. 1443 01:10:48,148 --> 01:10:51,317 The blood trails show where he was trying to... 1444 01:10:51,351 --> 01:10:52,519 GAIL: Jay, please stop. JAY: No! 1445 01:10:52,585 --> 01:10:54,954 He came back. He was methodical. 1446 01:10:55,210 --> 01:10:57,624 He was looking. 1447 01:10:57,657 --> 01:10:58,792 And Evan... 1448 01:11:00,894 --> 01:11:02,395 [CRIES] ...was still alive. 1449 01:11:02,462 --> 01:11:03,463 I know. 1450 01:11:04,898 --> 01:11:07,500 You do not know. 1451 01:11:07,534 --> 01:11:08,935 I know! 1452 01:11:10,603 --> 01:11:12,505 I know. 1453 01:11:12,539 --> 01:11:16,776 The streaks on the floor. 1454 01:11:18,411 --> 01:11:21,681 The way he was crawling. 1455 01:11:21,748 --> 01:11:23,550 I know the wounds, 1456 01:11:24,884 --> 01:11:26,319 in what order. 1457 01:11:29,890 --> 01:11:30,690 How he fought. 1458 01:11:37,497 --> 01:11:38,998 And how he died. 1459 01:11:40,333 --> 01:11:41,334 Nah. 1460 01:11:43,903 --> 01:11:44,904 [SOBBING] 1461 01:11:50,777 --> 01:11:52,780 He died. 1462 01:11:56,216 --> 01:11:57,217 [JAY SOBBING] 1463 01:12:14,734 --> 01:12:16,469 GAIL: Now, please stop. 1464 01:12:18,805 --> 01:12:20,306 Please stop. 1465 01:12:21,675 --> 01:12:22,942 [CONTINUES SOBBING] 1466 01:12:50,870 --> 01:12:53,640 RICHARD: Caroline, Jonathan, and Tory were killed instantly 1467 01:12:53,707 --> 01:12:55,750 in the blast. 1468 01:12:55,975 --> 01:12:58,845 Daniel, shot three times, 1469 01:12:58,878 --> 01:13:01,448 twice in the lungs, once in the heart. 1470 01:13:01,481 --> 01:13:03,883 He died seated at his desk. 1471 01:13:05,852 --> 01:13:09,489 Juliana, shot twice in the leg, once in the knee, 1472 01:13:09,522 --> 01:13:11,491 once in the thigh, 1473 01:13:11,524 --> 01:13:12,992 the femoral artery. 1474 01:13:13,260 --> 01:13:14,994 What are you doing? 1475 01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:18,765 She lost her vision from the glass in her eyes. 1476 01:13:18,798 --> 01:13:22,680 She tried to crawl out of the classroom. 1477 01:13:22,102 --> 01:13:23,203 But she died before finding the way. 1478 01:13:23,236 --> 01:13:24,304 Okay. 1479 01:13:24,337 --> 01:13:27,307 RICHARD: Vanessa, shot four times, 1480 01:13:27,340 --> 01:13:29,175 twice in the abdomen, twice in the head. 1481 01:13:29,209 --> 01:13:31,211 We understand you know. 1482 01:13:31,244 --> 01:13:33,613 The victims, and the wounded. 1483 01:13:34,314 --> 01:13:35,682 I'm sorry. 1484 01:13:37,450 --> 01:13:39,119 But I do know. 1485 01:13:39,185 --> 01:13:41,210 All of them. 1486 01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:45,925 I know Evan, his story that day. 1487 01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:49,362 And I know Hayden's. 1488 01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:53,330 He did go back. 1489 01:13:53,660 --> 01:13:57,700 He was going to the library, where he wanted to die. 1490 01:13:57,103 --> 01:13:59,506 He told us, wrote to us in his notebook. 1491 01:14:00,940 --> 01:14:05,412 "That's where you'll find me. Where it's quiet for me." 1492 01:14:05,478 --> 01:14:10,500 Where, respectfully, 1493 01:14:10,830 --> 01:14:14,721 the last shot was at 1:41. 1494 01:14:15,555 --> 01:14:17,900 In the library. 1495 01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:21,261 JAY: People saw. Kids saw. 1496 01:14:23,630 --> 01:14:25,650 - Christopher... - Shot in the head. 1497 01:14:25,980 --> 01:14:26,733 I know. 1498 01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:28,101 My son. 1499 01:14:28,134 --> 01:14:30,804 JAY: Shot in the face, 1500 01:14:30,837 --> 01:14:35,175 hiding underneath the table, begging for his life. 1501 01:14:36,176 --> 01:14:38,178 That is what they said. 1502 01:14:38,244 --> 01:14:39,279 [JAY SIGHS] 1503 01:14:39,312 --> 01:14:42,415 That's... That's not feeling. 1504 01:14:43,316 --> 01:14:45,185 - That is hate. - That's... 1505 01:14:46,386 --> 01:14:50,156 Disturbed? Hate? Rage? 1506 01:14:50,190 --> 01:14:52,826 - Hopelessness? - JAY: No, no, no. 1507 01:14:52,859 --> 01:14:56,429 Apathy, indifference. 1508 01:14:56,463 --> 01:15:00,567 - Cold, callous. - RICHARD: Evil? 1509 01:15:04,637 --> 01:15:06,272 Do you want to say? 1510 01:15:06,306 --> 01:15:08,800 Because I... 1511 01:15:09,442 --> 01:15:10,777 I won't. 1512 01:15:13,313 --> 01:15:14,547 I won't. 1513 01:15:14,581 --> 01:15:15,882 It doesn't matter. 1514 01:15:19,919 --> 01:15:21,621 [SIGHS] 1515 01:15:23,623 --> 01:15:25,625 RICHARD: We went to the school. Did you know that? 1516 01:15:29,462 --> 01:15:31,631 It was supposed to be for the victims' families, 1517 01:15:31,664 --> 01:15:36,202 and Hayden wouldn't be counted as a victim. 1518 01:15:37,237 --> 01:15:39,372 So we fought for that. 1519 01:15:40,473 --> 01:15:44,144 And we saw, we saw the damage. 1520 01:15:44,177 --> 01:15:46,913 The windows, the black stains. 1521 01:15:48,810 --> 01:15:49,916 We saw his hate. 1522 01:15:51,151 --> 01:15:53,787 - LINDA: The lines. - What he did. What? 1523 01:15:54,454 --> 01:15:57,624 The lines or tape. 1524 01:15:57,657 --> 01:15:59,926 The outlines of the children. 1525 01:15:59,959 --> 01:16:02,629 - Mr. Moore. - JAY: Hmm. 1526 01:16:02,662 --> 01:16:04,497 The bodies. Yeah. 1527 01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:09,169 I was... 1528 01:16:12,272 --> 01:16:13,640 I didn't know you were allowed in. 1529 01:16:15,750 --> 01:16:17,844 Well, they kept that secret. They didn't want... 1530 01:16:17,911 --> 01:16:18,912 RICHARD: More outrage. 1531 01:16:21,114 --> 01:16:23,516 The world mourned 10. 1532 01:16:25,118 --> 01:16:26,920 We mourned 11. 1533 01:16:27,987 --> 01:16:30,290 There would be no memorials for 11. 1534 01:16:30,357 --> 01:16:34,928 No concerts reading 11 names, and I understood that, 1535 01:16:34,961 --> 01:16:39,132 but I would not be excluded from that too. 1536 01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:41,000 [INHALES DEEPLY] 1537 01:16:42,102 --> 01:16:43,403 The damage, though... 1538 01:16:46,272 --> 01:16:47,540 How much... 1539 01:16:51,578 --> 01:16:52,879 He was in pain. 1540 01:16:54,547 --> 01:16:57,751 It was the pain that brought him there. 1541 01:17:03,823 --> 01:17:05,692 I didn't want another child. 1542 01:17:07,527 --> 01:17:08,528 But... 1543 01:17:11,264 --> 01:17:13,533 once he was born... 1544 01:17:13,566 --> 01:17:14,734 [CRYING SOFTLY] 1545 01:17:18,171 --> 01:17:20,407 I loved Hayden so much. 1546 01:17:22,776 --> 01:17:26,546 But maybe... [CRYING] 1547 01:17:28,181 --> 01:17:29,349 [RICHARD SNIFFLES] 1548 01:17:31,785 --> 01:17:34,540 Maybe he should never have been born. 1549 01:17:34,120 --> 01:17:35,121 LINDA: No. 1550 01:17:36,756 --> 01:17:39,993 We should never have gone to the school. 1551 01:17:40,260 --> 01:17:45,632 I just remember this terrible feeling of awe, 1552 01:17:45,699 --> 01:17:49,703 just awe at what my boy had done. 1553 01:17:51,571 --> 01:17:56,810 And then a long, skinny frame outlined in the carpet. 1554 01:17:56,876 --> 01:17:58,211 All alone. 1555 01:17:59,746 --> 01:18:01,281 I knew it was him. 1556 01:18:01,314 --> 01:18:05,318 Not because of where it was or... 1557 01:18:05,352 --> 01:18:06,920 I just knew it was him. 1558 01:18:08,154 --> 01:18:09,956 I recognized Evan too. 1559 01:18:11,224 --> 01:18:12,759 Not because of the lines. 1560 01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:15,795 The number. 1561 01:18:15,829 --> 01:18:18,164 The number markers for the report. 1562 01:18:18,198 --> 01:18:19,299 LINDA: Yeah. 1563 01:18:19,332 --> 01:18:20,734 JAY: He was number one. 1564 01:18:21,901 --> 01:18:23,670 I guess he was the first they found. 1565 01:18:26,306 --> 01:18:27,307 He was... 1566 01:18:31,344 --> 01:18:32,412 He was my... 1567 01:18:37,117 --> 01:18:38,351 That was hard. 1568 01:18:39,419 --> 01:18:40,787 LINDA: It was. 1569 01:18:41,855 --> 01:18:46,860 But you know, and please forgive me, 1570 01:18:46,926 --> 01:18:49,262 it made me feel like the rest of you. 1571 01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:57,771 JAY: Some parent said, 1572 01:18:57,804 --> 01:18:59,839 I can't remember who, 1573 01:18:59,873 --> 01:19:04,577 said early on in a mean way, meant to be mean, 1574 01:19:06,413 --> 01:19:08,948 that you were the loneliest people in the world. 1575 01:19:12,180 --> 01:19:15,889 As if that was justice. As if... 1576 01:19:15,955 --> 01:19:17,891 Well, we were. 1577 01:19:17,957 --> 01:19:19,859 RICHARD: I still get mail. 1578 01:19:19,893 --> 01:19:23,730 Some hateful, some sympathetic. 1579 01:19:23,797 --> 01:19:26,399 Mostly just strange. 1580 01:19:26,433 --> 01:19:29,536 I can't say I understand the purpose of it, 1581 01:19:29,569 --> 01:19:33,139 but it only reminded me of what he had done. 1582 01:19:33,173 --> 01:19:39,312 And I was trying to restore my memory of... of who he was. 1583 01:19:40,914 --> 01:19:43,283 And that's what I have to do. 1584 01:19:43,917 --> 01:19:46,319 Do you understand? 1585 01:19:46,386 --> 01:19:48,988 You said he destroyed our lives. 1586 01:19:49,220 --> 01:19:50,490 Yes, he did. 1587 01:19:51,691 --> 01:19:53,293 And while I know the world 1588 01:19:53,326 --> 01:19:57,464 would have been better without him, 1589 01:19:59,432 --> 01:20:01,670 I can't say I would have been. 1590 01:20:01,134 --> 01:20:02,869 Oh, God. 1591 01:20:02,902 --> 01:20:05,171 LINDA: I'm sorry. I know that's... 1592 01:20:05,205 --> 01:20:07,273 - No. - I shouldn't have said that. 1593 01:20:07,307 --> 01:20:09,442 It's just... It's just... 1594 01:20:10,343 --> 01:20:12,779 I thought I had to believe 1595 01:20:12,846 --> 01:20:15,348 that my son's life had no value 1596 01:20:15,415 --> 01:20:18,785 because of what he did before he died, 1597 01:20:18,852 --> 01:20:25,392 but I don't have to believe that, do I? 1598 01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:28,862 Or is that hard for you to hear? 1599 01:20:34,367 --> 01:20:35,468 I guess. 1600 01:20:36,736 --> 01:20:37,737 Yes, it is. 1601 01:20:41,541 --> 01:20:43,476 But I won't tell you how to keep your son. 1602 01:20:44,778 --> 01:20:45,979 GAIL: No. I... 1603 01:20:47,747 --> 01:20:49,949 [SIGHS DEEPLY] 1604 01:20:49,983 --> 01:20:51,551 No, I don't know. I... 1605 01:20:52,786 --> 01:20:53,887 Yes, it is hard. 1606 01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:57,357 But, no, I think... 1607 01:20:58,425 --> 01:20:59,626 I think that's right. I... 1608 01:20:59,659 --> 01:21:01,695 God, I don't... I don't know. 1609 01:21:02,529 --> 01:21:03,830 That's okay. 1610 01:21:03,897 --> 01:21:06,199 I wouldn't ever expect you to feel that way. 1611 01:21:06,232 --> 01:21:08,902 No, no, that's not it. That's not it. 1612 01:21:08,935 --> 01:21:11,104 Not... Not your son. 1613 01:21:11,137 --> 01:21:12,238 Not 1614 01:21:13,440 --> 01:21:14,708 him. 1615 01:21:14,774 --> 01:21:15,809 It's... 1616 01:21:17,644 --> 01:21:18,978 value. 1617 01:21:20,246 --> 01:21:22,820 It's all of their values. 1618 01:21:24,818 --> 01:21:26,286 See, I... 1619 01:21:26,353 --> 01:21:28,880 [SIGHS DEEPLY] 1620 01:21:29,522 --> 01:21:32,959 I made a promise. I made a promise to him. 1621 01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:35,362 That I can't keep... 1622 01:21:35,395 --> 01:21:37,964 - Hey, honey. - GAIL: No, it... Please. 1623 01:21:37,997 --> 01:21:40,433 LINDA: What did you promise him? 1624 01:21:40,467 --> 01:21:46,406 I promised him that his life would mean something, 1625 01:21:47,741 --> 01:21:50,276 that it wouldn't be in vain. 1626 01:21:50,310 --> 01:21:52,479 That because of him, all of them, 1627 01:21:53,947 --> 01:21:57,250 things would change, you know? 1628 01:21:58,451 --> 01:22:00,453 But nothing's changed. Nothing. 1629 01:22:01,721 --> 01:22:04,557 The only difference is that they're gone. 1630 01:22:04,591 --> 01:22:08,194 And that's all I hear. Still. All those parents. 1631 01:22:08,261 --> 01:22:11,598 The last of us in that firehouse, 1632 01:22:11,631 --> 01:22:15,735 the loneliest people in the world, asking, 1633 01:22:15,769 --> 01:22:18,304 "What do you mean, they're gone?" 1634 01:22:18,338 --> 01:22:19,639 "Gone where?" 1635 01:22:20,774 --> 01:22:22,475 "Where have they gone?" 1636 01:22:24,177 --> 01:22:30,183 So... you talk about value, their lives having value, 1637 01:22:30,216 --> 01:22:33,530 and that's all I want. 1638 01:22:33,860 --> 01:22:35,522 I just want it to mean something. I just... 1639 01:22:37,357 --> 01:22:39,159 I just... I want it to change. 1640 01:22:41,327 --> 01:22:42,462 Why does it have to change? 1641 01:22:42,495 --> 01:22:43,730 What? 1642 01:22:46,232 --> 01:22:48,368 Can you tell me a story about Evan? 1643 01:22:49,636 --> 01:22:51,638 What? 1644 01:22:51,671 --> 01:22:55,800 Please? Can you tell me a story about him? 1645 01:22:56,242 --> 01:22:57,344 Now? 1646 01:22:57,377 --> 01:22:59,245 Yeah. 1647 01:22:59,312 --> 01:23:03,316 GAIL: Jay... I don't know. There's so many. 1648 01:23:03,350 --> 01:23:05,685 Doesn't matter. Just don't think about it. 1649 01:23:05,752 --> 01:23:08,880 - Just tell me one. - Jay... 1650 01:23:10,757 --> 01:23:13,226 - GAIL: No, come, come... - It's okay. It's okay, honey. 1651 01:23:13,259 --> 01:23:14,928 - Go on. - GAIL: No, come here. 1652 01:23:14,961 --> 01:23:16,930 - Come, come here. - JAY: Okay. 1653 01:23:16,963 --> 01:23:18,665 - Come. - JAY: Okay, okay. 1654 01:23:20,133 --> 01:23:22,680 - Oh, Jesus. - JAY: I got you. 1655 01:23:24,104 --> 01:23:27,374 Okay. Okay, okay. Okay. I see, um... 1656 01:23:28,208 --> 01:23:31,440 Oh... let me think. 1657 01:23:31,811 --> 01:23:32,812 Oh. 1658 01:23:35,715 --> 01:23:38,840 He's 12 years old, I think. 1659 01:23:39,252 --> 01:23:40,720 He's 12 years old. 1660 01:23:40,787 --> 01:23:41,921 Um... 1661 01:23:41,955 --> 01:23:43,390 Sixth grade? 1662 01:23:43,423 --> 01:23:47,600 I don't know. He's young, and... 1663 01:23:47,930 --> 01:23:50,397 It's fall. He's... 1664 01:23:50,430 --> 01:23:55,602 He's playing football with his friends in the park, 1665 01:23:56,603 --> 01:23:58,705 near our house. It's... 1666 01:23:58,738 --> 01:24:01,941 He used to play in the park near our house. It's, um... 1667 01:24:01,975 --> 01:24:03,710 On Sundays, you know. 1668 01:24:05,780 --> 01:24:08,448 Just a few blocks from our home. 1669 01:24:08,515 --> 01:24:10,550 But we had a dinner to go to. 1670 01:24:11,418 --> 01:24:13,186 Jay's parents were visiting. 1671 01:24:14,688 --> 01:24:18,758 So I said to him, "Do not get too dirty," 1672 01:24:18,825 --> 01:24:21,628 "because we've got to leave the house by 5:00." 1673 01:24:21,695 --> 01:24:23,563 - [LINDA CHUCKLES] - GAIL: And he said, "Mom," 1674 01:24:23,596 --> 01:24:26,132 "the dirtier you are, the better you are. 1675 01:24:26,166 --> 01:24:27,901 [CHUCKLES] "That's how you spot" 1676 01:24:27,967 --> 01:24:29,736 "the best players on the team." 1677 01:24:29,769 --> 01:24:31,171 "They're the ones with the grass" 1678 01:24:31,204 --> 01:24:33,340 "and the stains on their jerseys." 1679 01:24:34,107 --> 01:24:36,176 [CHUCKLING] And I said... 1680 01:24:36,209 --> 01:24:37,544 I... 1681 01:24:37,577 --> 01:24:39,479 He was so funny. [LAUGHING] 1682 01:24:39,546 --> 01:24:45,752 I said, "But shouldn't the good players not be tackled" 1683 01:24:45,785 --> 01:24:48,154 "and fall on the ground so much?" 1684 01:24:48,188 --> 01:24:54,494 "No, Mom, the dirtier you are, the better you are." 1685 01:24:57,864 --> 01:24:59,165 "Okay." 1686 01:24:59,666 --> 01:25:00,900 [SNIFFLES] 1687 01:25:00,934 --> 01:25:03,870 You know, he was like that about everything, 1688 01:25:03,903 --> 01:25:06,172 such strong opinions, 1689 01:25:06,206 --> 01:25:07,941 even if he didn't know anything 1690 01:25:08,800 --> 01:25:09,909 about what he was talking about. 1691 01:25:09,943 --> 01:25:11,478 Thank you. [SNIFFLES] 1692 01:25:11,511 --> 01:25:12,512 So... 1693 01:25:13,780 --> 01:25:16,483 So it's 5:00, or it's about to be. 1694 01:25:16,516 --> 01:25:19,886 It's almost 5:00, and he's still not back, 1695 01:25:19,919 --> 01:25:23,390 and I'm about to just go down there and grab him, 1696 01:25:23,456 --> 01:25:25,325 and drag him back, 1697 01:25:25,358 --> 01:25:28,261 when Sophie comes in the door. 1698 01:25:28,328 --> 01:25:30,530 She followed Evan everywhere back then. 1699 01:25:30,597 --> 01:25:34,667 She loved watching the boys playing, goof around. 1700 01:25:34,701 --> 01:25:37,237 So she burst in and she says, 1701 01:25:37,270 --> 01:25:42,676 "Mom, oh, my gosh. Mom. Look at Evan." 1702 01:25:42,709 --> 01:25:45,478 So I come around the corner, and I see him, 1703 01:25:45,512 --> 01:25:51,551 and he is covered, head to toe, in mud. 1704 01:25:51,618 --> 01:25:53,853 - It was absurd. - It was. 1705 01:25:53,920 --> 01:25:57,991 It was like he covered himself, like a mud bath. 1706 01:25:58,580 --> 01:26:00,427 It just didn't really even make sense even, 1707 01:26:00,493 --> 01:26:02,729 and I was... I lost it. 1708 01:26:02,796 --> 01:26:06,660 "Evan. What have you done?" 1709 01:26:06,990 --> 01:26:07,634 JAY: He was completely unfazed. 1710 01:26:07,667 --> 01:26:09,969 Yeah. Right? 1711 01:26:10,300 --> 01:26:11,237 He played it cool. 1712 01:26:12,706 --> 01:26:16,876 "Mom, I told you, the best players are the dirtiest." 1713 01:26:18,144 --> 01:26:19,245 He was... 1714 01:26:20,113 --> 01:26:21,514 You know? 1715 01:26:22,682 --> 01:26:24,317 I was so mad. 1716 01:26:26,286 --> 01:26:28,210 But then I was laughing. 1717 01:26:29,220 --> 01:26:30,657 [LAUGHS] 1718 01:26:31,157 --> 01:26:32,425 And holding him, 1719 01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:37,263 and the dirt, 1720 01:26:37,297 --> 01:26:38,665 the grass. 1721 01:26:40,967 --> 01:26:42,836 That smell of him. 1722 01:26:42,869 --> 01:26:44,537 [BREATHES DEEPLY] 1723 01:26:44,571 --> 01:26:46,272 Wet leaves. 1724 01:26:48,408 --> 01:26:50,276 The child on him. 1725 01:26:52,912 --> 01:26:55,482 I could feel so much life. 1726 01:26:59,190 --> 01:27:00,920 We let him go to dinner that way. 1727 01:27:00,987 --> 01:27:03,256 - He washed his face. - Well, yeah. But... 1728 01:27:06,126 --> 01:27:08,294 - He was so proud. - [LAUGHS] 1729 01:27:14,801 --> 01:27:16,803 That's what his life meant. 1730 01:27:19,500 --> 01:27:20,273 Let him rest. 1731 01:27:21,808 --> 01:27:24,811 Evan doesn't have to change the world. 1732 01:27:24,878 --> 01:27:27,947 [GASPS] But I still miss him. [SOBS] 1733 01:27:35,388 --> 01:27:39,590 Do you remember what you wrote to me? 1734 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:41,610 GAIL: Oh, God. 1735 01:27:41,940 --> 01:27:43,329 - I wrote you way too much. - [LINDA CHUCKLES] 1736 01:27:44,831 --> 01:27:46,332 You wrote to me, 1737 01:27:48,368 --> 01:27:50,537 "I want you to know my son." 1738 01:27:52,605 --> 01:27:54,341 "I want you to know his name." 1739 01:27:55,942 --> 01:27:56,943 Yeah. 1740 01:28:01,181 --> 01:28:02,549 LINDA: Do you have a story? 1741 01:28:04,851 --> 01:28:05,919 Oh, God. 1742 01:28:05,952 --> 01:28:07,253 I, uh... [SNIFFLES] 1743 01:28:08,254 --> 01:28:09,522 All of them. 1744 01:28:11,570 --> 01:28:12,492 I... 1745 01:28:12,525 --> 01:28:15,562 Let's just preserve them. Okay? 1746 01:28:17,397 --> 01:28:18,998 GAIL: Jay. 1747 01:28:19,650 --> 01:28:20,700 Yeah? 1748 01:28:20,767 --> 01:28:22,969 I think I need to... 1749 01:28:23,200 --> 01:28:24,300 What? 1750 01:28:24,637 --> 01:28:26,239 I think I'm ready. 1751 01:28:29,409 --> 01:28:30,577 Okay. 1752 01:28:34,447 --> 01:28:36,249 I need to tell you... 1753 01:28:39,452 --> 01:28:43,390 I wanted so, so badly 1754 01:28:43,423 --> 01:28:47,694 for you to be an example or punished. 1755 01:28:47,727 --> 01:28:50,397 I came here wanting that. 1756 01:28:50,430 --> 01:28:55,568 But something's died in all of us, all of us. 1757 01:28:55,602 --> 01:28:59,139 And I'm so scared that what I wanted, 1758 01:28:59,172 --> 01:29:02,542 what I need, isn't what I thought. 1759 01:29:03,276 --> 01:29:05,712 What did you think? 1760 01:29:05,745 --> 01:29:10,500 That if I forgave you, I'd lose him. 1761 01:29:10,450 --> 01:29:12,452 Oh. No. 1762 01:29:12,485 --> 01:29:14,200 GAIL: Yes. 1763 01:29:14,540 --> 01:29:16,589 But maybe I just needed to be with you. 1764 01:29:17,390 --> 01:29:19,559 Because I know now. I... 1765 01:29:21,127 --> 01:29:22,996 I forgive you. 1766 01:29:25,298 --> 01:29:26,633 I do. 1767 01:29:28,435 --> 01:29:30,437 I have. I forgive you. 1768 01:29:31,271 --> 01:29:35,750 And I have to tell you... 1769 01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:37,911 I have to tell you... 1770 01:29:40,480 --> 01:29:42,349 I also forgive Hayden 1771 01:29:43,950 --> 01:29:48,855 for what he did, for taking my baby's life. 1772 01:29:48,888 --> 01:29:53,326 Because I know, in my heart, he was lost. 1773 01:29:54,494 --> 01:29:56,663 So I do... I forgive him. 1774 01:29:58,631 --> 01:30:00,767 Because I can't live this way anymore. 1775 01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:03,937 - Sweetheart. - No, I can't. We can't. 1776 01:30:03,970 --> 01:30:05,739 - Okay. - We don't sleep. 1777 01:30:05,772 --> 01:30:07,374 We don't breathe. 1778 01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:09,175 We don't see each other anymore, 1779 01:30:09,209 --> 01:30:11,478 and I want to. I want to. 1780 01:30:12,112 --> 01:30:13,380 - Okay? - Yeah. 1781 01:30:13,446 --> 01:30:15,482 Because I can't hold on to this any longer. 1782 01:30:15,515 --> 01:30:18,918 I can't. It's not him. It's not. 1783 01:30:18,952 --> 01:30:22,122 It's just this terrible pain 1784 01:30:22,188 --> 01:30:24,891 for wishing for a different past, 1785 01:30:24,924 --> 01:30:28,895 and I can't let it control my life anymore, 1786 01:30:28,928 --> 01:30:31,765 because if I do, I'm afraid I'll never see him again. 1787 01:30:32,532 --> 01:30:34,534 And I need to. 1788 01:30:34,567 --> 01:30:36,970 I know that I will. I know I'll see him. 1789 01:30:37,300 --> 01:30:40,674 I know I'll hold him against me, if I could just forgive. 1790 01:30:40,707 --> 01:30:42,842 If I can love again. 1791 01:30:42,909 --> 01:30:44,770 So I do. 1792 01:30:45,478 --> 01:30:46,546 I do. 1793 01:30:46,579 --> 01:30:49,115 [BREATHING HEAVILY] 1794 01:31:00,860 --> 01:31:02,796 [SOBS] 1795 01:31:02,829 --> 01:31:04,531 - [BREATHES HEAVILY] - [JAY SIGHS DEEPLY] 1796 01:31:06,266 --> 01:31:07,367 [SIGHS] 1797 01:31:12,939 --> 01:31:14,574 [JAY AND GAIL SIGH DEEPLY] 1798 01:31:22,749 --> 01:31:24,384 LINDA: Maybe this is right. 1799 01:31:26,152 --> 01:31:27,954 This moment of silence. 1800 01:31:30,757 --> 01:31:33,193 Maybe this is the right way to say goodbye. 1801 01:31:38,765 --> 01:31:39,899 Yeah. 1802 01:31:41,434 --> 01:31:42,869 I like that. 1803 01:31:50,343 --> 01:31:51,845 Do you want to...? 1804 01:31:51,878 --> 01:31:53,446 Maybe we could do a little, uh...? 1805 01:31:55,181 --> 01:31:56,349 Yeah. 1806 01:32:13,199 --> 01:32:14,601 Mmm. 1807 01:32:50,804 --> 01:32:51,905 [SIGHS DEEPLY] 1808 01:33:22,369 --> 01:33:23,370 Well... 1809 01:33:25,705 --> 01:33:27,440 I hope we were able to help. 1810 01:33:29,709 --> 01:33:31,244 Thanks. 1811 01:33:33,980 --> 01:33:36,983 I mean, is... Is that it? 1812 01:33:37,170 --> 01:33:40,553 I think so. I'm exhausted. 1813 01:33:41,988 --> 01:33:45,291 Well, I guess, uh... You know... 1814 01:33:45,325 --> 01:33:47,761 We can always speak again. 1815 01:33:47,827 --> 01:33:49,262 - RICHARD: Sure. - Right? 1816 01:33:49,295 --> 01:33:51,131 Of course. 1817 01:33:51,164 --> 01:33:53,166 Thank you so much for bringing your pictures. 1818 01:33:53,199 --> 01:33:56,202 Oh, no, of course. Thank you. 1819 01:33:57,370 --> 01:33:58,838 Thank you for the flowers. 1820 01:33:58,872 --> 01:34:00,400 You're welcome. 1821 01:34:00,106 --> 01:34:01,274 Will they be able to travel? The flowers? 1822 01:34:01,307 --> 01:34:02,542 I don't want you to have to... 1823 01:34:02,575 --> 01:34:03,710 Oh, no. We'll manage. 1824 01:34:03,743 --> 01:34:04,844 Yeah, sure. 1825 01:34:04,878 --> 01:34:06,446 GAIL: Well... 1826 01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:08,715 RICHARD: Uh, maybe Kendra can get you a box or something. 1827 01:34:08,748 --> 01:34:10,160 I don't want you to have to... 1828 01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:11,351 I'm so sorry. I should have thought of that. 1829 01:34:11,418 --> 01:34:12,886 No, no. It's... We could just carry them, right? 1830 01:34:12,919 --> 01:34:14,854 Yeah. Or just the woman that works here, 1831 01:34:14,888 --> 01:34:16,589 she may be able to find something. 1832 01:34:16,623 --> 01:34:18,124 Oh. I don't think I've met her. 1833 01:34:18,158 --> 01:34:19,626 - Let me go see. - LINDA: Ah. 1834 01:34:19,693 --> 01:34:22,629 I don't know what I was thinking. I'm sorry. 1835 01:34:22,696 --> 01:34:23,930 - Silly of me. - GAIL: It's fine. 1836 01:34:25,799 --> 01:34:29,469 [JAY EXHALES AND SNIFFLES] 1837 01:34:30,170 --> 01:34:31,304 JAY: Does anybody want... 1838 01:34:31,337 --> 01:34:32,772 You want a water bottle for the road? 1839 01:34:32,806 --> 01:34:34,574 Oh, thank you. I'm all set. 1840 01:34:35,241 --> 01:34:37,430 They have coffee. 1841 01:34:37,770 --> 01:34:38,745 You want a coffee? 1842 01:34:38,778 --> 01:34:42,215 - Nah. - JAY: All right. Okay. 1843 01:34:42,248 --> 01:34:45,510 I think I'll just see if I can give him a hand. 1844 01:34:45,850 --> 01:34:46,586 GAIL: Sure. 1845 01:34:46,619 --> 01:34:47,787 [GAIL SIGHS] 1846 01:34:49,656 --> 01:34:50,657 JUDY: Okay. 1847 01:34:51,958 --> 01:34:53,460 LINDA: I will see you out front then. 1848 01:34:53,493 --> 01:34:54,761 - Yeah. - LINDA: Okay. 1849 01:34:59,833 --> 01:35:01,234 KENDRA: Hi, Linda. 1850 01:35:01,267 --> 01:35:02,969 LINDA: Hello. 1851 01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:04,671 - [JAY EXHALES DEEPLY] - Hmm. 1852 01:35:04,738 --> 01:35:07,507 KENDRA: I'll be right back. I've got the flowers. 1853 01:35:07,540 --> 01:35:09,642 - And then... - GAIL: Mmm-hmm. 1854 01:35:09,676 --> 01:35:10,777 [JAY GRUNTS] 1855 01:35:12,846 --> 01:35:14,814 - Should we, uh...? - Yeah. 1856 01:35:15,982 --> 01:35:17,500 I'll be right there. 1857 01:35:27,394 --> 01:35:28,795 [EXHALES DEEPLY] 1858 01:35:37,537 --> 01:35:38,538 [SIGHS] 1859 01:36:26,252 --> 01:36:27,854 KENDRA: Do you have newspaper? 1860 01:36:27,887 --> 01:36:30,123 JAY: Yeah, please don't go to any trouble. 1861 01:36:30,156 --> 01:36:32,459 LINDA: I'm so sorry. I should have thought of that. 1862 01:36:32,492 --> 01:36:34,194 ANTHONY: They brought the new hymnal books in a box. 1863 01:36:34,260 --> 01:36:35,929 JUDY: Oh, yes, that's a great idea. 1864 01:36:35,995 --> 01:36:37,497 ANTHONY: Thank you. JUDY: Oh, of course. 1865 01:36:37,564 --> 01:36:39,650 I'm going to go check downstairs 1866 01:36:39,132 --> 01:36:40,567 to see if there's something else. 1867 01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:42,702 KENDRA: Thank you, guys. JUDY: Okay. 1868 01:36:49,750 --> 01:36:51,770 - Well... - I guess we're waiting for, 1869 01:36:51,144 --> 01:36:52,946 - uh... - Yeah. 1870 01:36:56,950 --> 01:36:59,919 Um, well, thank you both for today, 1871 01:36:59,953 --> 01:37:01,287 and Kendra, of course. 1872 01:37:01,321 --> 01:37:03,560 KENDRA: Oh, it was my pleasure. 1873 01:37:07,527 --> 01:37:09,462 If you don't mind, I should go. 1874 01:37:11,164 --> 01:37:13,660 Oh, sure, you know... 1875 01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:14,934 Linda, I should really get back. 1876 01:37:14,968 --> 01:37:16,903 Okay. 1877 01:37:16,936 --> 01:37:18,605 I can walk back without you if you... 1878 01:37:18,638 --> 01:37:19,973 No, no, no, I can... 1879 01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:21,307 - I can go with you. - RICHARD: All right. Okay. 1880 01:37:21,341 --> 01:37:23,877 We walked here together earlier. 1881 01:37:26,780 --> 01:37:28,480 It was, um... 1882 01:37:34,387 --> 01:37:35,422 [SIGHS] 1883 01:37:37,957 --> 01:37:39,125 Please take good care of yourselves. 1884 01:37:39,192 --> 01:37:40,927 GAIL: Thank you. JAY: And you, Richard. 1885 01:37:45,565 --> 01:37:47,934 - JAY: We're gonna stay, right? - Yeah. 1886 01:37:47,967 --> 01:37:50,270 We're always here. I mean... 1887 01:37:51,371 --> 01:37:52,972 Just stay in touch. 1888 01:37:55,208 --> 01:37:56,276 Good. 1889 01:38:01,348 --> 01:38:02,949 It's nice to see you again. 1890 01:38:09,220 --> 01:38:10,390 Take care. 1891 01:38:15,929 --> 01:38:16,930 [CLEARS THROAT] 1892 01:38:19,699 --> 01:38:21,534 JUDY: Uh, it's easier if you guys 1893 01:38:21,568 --> 01:38:23,536 would come down here, maybe, with the flowers? 1894 01:38:23,570 --> 01:38:25,739 Yeah, sure. Good idea. 1895 01:38:42,856 --> 01:38:43,857 [SIGHS] 1896 01:38:50,497 --> 01:38:52,866 I think that this might be the right one. 1897 01:38:52,899 --> 01:38:54,567 If we just put a little bit of newspaper in it. 1898 01:38:54,601 --> 01:38:55,635 Fine. Sure. Don't trouble yourself. 1899 01:38:55,702 --> 01:38:56,770 Okay. 1900 01:38:56,836 --> 01:38:58,505 Um. Hi. 1901 01:38:58,571 --> 01:39:00,507 Oh, did they... Did they leave? 1902 01:39:00,573 --> 01:39:02,800 GAIL: Yeah, they left, but thank you. 1903 01:39:02,420 --> 01:39:03,143 JUDY: Oh. 1904 01:39:03,176 --> 01:39:04,711 They're a gift, they're ours, so... 1905 01:39:04,744 --> 01:39:07,130 I was just hoping to say goodbye, is all. 1906 01:39:07,470 --> 01:39:08,748 I didn't even introduce myself to them. 1907 01:39:08,782 --> 01:39:10,150 - It's okay. - Don't worry about it. 1908 01:39:10,183 --> 01:39:12,850 - I'm sure it's fine. - Yeah... No, I should have. 1909 01:39:12,152 --> 01:39:13,653 JAY: That's... That's fine. 1910 01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:17,590 Thanks so much for giving us the space and for having us. 1911 01:39:17,624 --> 01:39:19,426 - It's really very... - It's healing here. 1912 01:39:19,459 --> 01:39:22,729 It really is. It's safe here. 1913 01:39:22,762 --> 01:39:24,300 Wherever you come from. 1914 01:39:25,765 --> 01:39:27,600 So, I think we can put it in here 1915 01:39:27,634 --> 01:39:28,768 if we just put a little bit of newspaper. 1916 01:39:28,802 --> 01:39:30,437 - ANTHONY: Judy? - Yeah? 1917 01:39:33,106 --> 01:39:34,541 Pardon me. Uh, 1918 01:39:34,607 --> 01:39:36,343 they're bringing the rest of the books to St. Thomas. 1919 01:39:36,376 --> 01:39:39,946 - So they need the boxes. - Oh, okay. Okay. 1920 01:39:40,130 --> 01:39:41,181 Honestly... 1921 01:39:41,214 --> 01:39:42,182 But can't we just use newspaper in here? 1922 01:39:42,215 --> 01:39:43,316 ANTHONY: I would use bubble wrap. 1923 01:39:43,350 --> 01:39:44,451 - JUDY: I don't think... - I really... 1924 01:39:44,484 --> 01:39:45,785 I don't want you to bother. 1925 01:39:45,819 --> 01:39:47,253 No, I can pack it. It's easy. 1926 01:39:47,320 --> 01:39:48,922 Just use a little bit of newspaper in it. 1927 01:39:48,955 --> 01:39:50,256 Well, how much newspaper do you have? 1928 01:39:50,323 --> 01:39:52,692 You know what? I'm just gonna hold on to them. 1929 01:39:52,759 --> 01:39:55,950 - I want to. Yeah. - Are you sure? 1930 01:39:55,128 --> 01:39:56,763 GAIL: I am. I think it'll be nice. 1931 01:39:56,796 --> 01:39:59,132 - Okay. I'm sorry. - Well... 1932 01:39:59,199 --> 01:40:01,340 GAIL: So, it was very nice to meet you both. 1933 01:40:01,670 --> 01:40:02,202 - Oh. - Um, 1934 01:40:02,235 --> 01:40:03,937 thank you for everything and... 1935 01:40:13,460 --> 01:40:15,815 I have a story I want to tell you. 1936 01:40:15,849 --> 01:40:17,117 GAIL: Oh, okay. 1937 01:40:19,119 --> 01:40:20,854 I want to hear it. 1938 01:40:24,224 --> 01:40:25,525 LINDA: He was 16. 1939 01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:28,595 He'd had such a bad week. 1940 01:40:29,796 --> 01:40:31,531 I felt so badly for him. 1941 01:40:33,299 --> 01:40:35,101 How cruel kids could be. 1942 01:40:36,703 --> 01:40:39,105 But I couldn't just let him fall apart. 1943 01:40:39,139 --> 01:40:40,106 GAIL: No. 1944 01:40:41,541 --> 01:40:43,576 We were alone. 1945 01:40:43,610 --> 01:40:46,790 Richard was working late. 1946 01:40:46,112 --> 01:40:48,748 I made dinner, but he wouldn't eat. 1947 01:40:50,950 --> 01:40:53,753 I tried to talk to him, but he wouldn't talk. 1948 01:40:55,550 --> 01:41:00,260 I went to his room. He was on the computer. 1949 01:41:00,293 --> 01:41:05,398 I yelled at him, "You have to start working." 1950 01:41:05,432 --> 01:41:09,335 "If you can't be happy, at least you can do well." 1951 01:41:10,904 --> 01:41:15,542 He screamed at me, "I don't want to be happy." 1952 01:41:16,476 --> 01:41:18,144 "I don't want to do well." 1953 01:41:19,579 --> 01:41:21,648 "Why?" I yelled. 1954 01:41:21,715 --> 01:41:23,616 "Why?" 1955 01:41:23,650 --> 01:41:25,852 Then we were screaming at each other. 1956 01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:30,857 We were both... so hurt. 1957 01:41:36,596 --> 01:41:38,198 And we were afraid. 1958 01:41:38,231 --> 01:41:39,332 I know that. 1959 01:41:41,768 --> 01:41:43,870 It happened very quickly. 1960 01:41:43,903 --> 01:41:47,173 But then he said, "Get out before I hit you." 1961 01:41:47,207 --> 01:41:49,809 "Get out before I beat the shit out of you." 1962 01:41:49,876 --> 01:41:51,678 I swear to God... 1963 01:41:52,579 --> 01:41:56,216 He was... terrifying. 1964 01:41:58,885 --> 01:42:00,220 I went to my room... 1965 01:42:02,655 --> 01:42:04,240 and I locked the door. 1966 01:42:07,260 --> 01:42:08,228 Gail... 1967 01:42:10,764 --> 01:42:11,765 [LINDA SNIFFLES] 1968 01:42:15,635 --> 01:42:17,700 I wish I had let him. 1969 01:42:19,272 --> 01:42:24,770 I wish I had said, "Okay, hit me." 1970 01:42:24,110 --> 01:42:25,712 "You hit me, sweetheart." 1971 01:42:27,547 --> 01:42:31,217 "Hit me for as long as you'll ever need." 1972 01:42:33,953 --> 01:42:37,223 Because then I would have known him. 1973 01:42:37,257 --> 01:42:40,694 I would have known who he really was. 1974 01:42:40,727 --> 01:42:42,950 [SOBBING] 1975 01:42:43,663 --> 01:42:44,931 GAIL: It's okay. 1976 01:43:00,513 --> 01:43:02,882 [LINDA SNIFFLES AND SOBS] 1977 01:43:02,949 --> 01:43:04,284 LINDA: Mine's a... 1978 01:43:07,454 --> 01:43:10,290 Mine's a... [STUTTERS] 1979 01:43:10,323 --> 01:43:11,858 different kind of story but... 1980 01:43:11,891 --> 01:43:13,930 No. 1981 01:43:13,126 --> 01:43:14,694 We miss them. 1982 01:43:16,896 --> 01:43:20,900 - I wanted to tell a story too. - I know. 1983 01:43:21,601 --> 01:43:23,269 I'm sorry I didn't ask. 1984 01:43:25,138 --> 01:43:26,272 LINDA: Thank you. 1985 01:43:33,460 --> 01:43:34,280 Thank you. 1986 01:44:00,240 --> 01:44:01,441 We should... 1987 01:44:02,375 --> 01:44:03,743 Should we, uh...? 1988 01:44:05,178 --> 01:44:08,140 I thought we'd let them go. 1989 01:44:08,480 --> 01:44:09,482 JAY: That's a good idea. 1990 01:44:15,321 --> 01:44:17,590 - [SIGHS] - [CHOIR SINGING] 1991 01:44:25,980 --> 01:44:26,199 What is that? 1992 01:44:27,467 --> 01:44:28,768 JUDY: Sorry. 1993 01:44:30,103 --> 01:44:31,371 Is that coming from...? 1994 01:44:31,404 --> 01:44:33,606 JUDY: Yeah, they're, um, practicing 1995 01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:35,375 for the choir tomorrow. 1996 01:44:35,408 --> 01:44:36,943 I... I forgot. 1997 01:44:39,779 --> 01:44:41,848 Did we tell them? 1998 01:44:41,915 --> 01:44:45,218 I told you this morning they were rehearsing today. 1999 01:44:45,251 --> 01:44:46,353 JUDY: Did you? 2000 01:44:47,787 --> 01:44:49,289 I'm sorry. 2001 01:44:49,356 --> 01:44:52,359 Don't be. It's... It's nice. 2002 01:44:52,392 --> 01:44:55,628 JUDY: Yeah, they're, um, rehearsing for tomorrow. 2003 01:44:55,662 --> 01:44:57,263 [CHOIR SINGING] 2004 01:44:57,297 --> 01:44:58,431 Hear that? 2005 01:44:59,799 --> 01:45:01,101 They're singing. 2006 01:45:05,205 --> 01:45:06,373 [SINGING CONTINUES] 2007 01:45:17,817 --> 01:45:19,719 Do you want to go up and see? 2008 01:45:22,220 --> 01:45:27,994 CHOIR: [SINGING] Blessed be the tie that binds 2009 01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:33,867 Our hearts in Christian love 2010 01:45:33,900 --> 01:45:37,737 The fellowship 2011 01:45:37,804 --> 01:45:41,908 Of kindred minds 2012 01:45:41,975 --> 01:45:44,844 [SOFTLY] No. That's all right. 2013 01:45:44,878 --> 01:45:48,314 Is like that to that above 2014 01:45:48,348 --> 01:45:51,510 [PIANO PLAYING] 2015 01:45:51,117 --> 01:45:58,124 [CHOIR SINGING] Before our Father's throne 2016 01:45:58,158 --> 01:46:05,632 We pour our ardent prayers 2017 01:46:05,699 --> 01:46:10,700 Our fears, our hopes 2018 01:46:10,136 --> 01:46:14,641 Our aims are one 2019 01:46:14,708 --> 01:46:17,944 Our comforts 2020 01:46:18,110 --> 01:46:23,583 And our cares 2021 01:46:23,616 --> 01:46:31,570 When we asunder part 2022 01:46:31,910 --> 01:46:38,665 It gives us inward pain 2023 01:46:38,732 --> 01:46:45,372 But we shall still be joined 2024 01:46:45,405 --> 01:46:47,674 In heart 2025 01:46:47,741 --> 01:46:54,681 And hope to meet again 2026 01:46:57,830 --> 01:46:58,840 [SINGING STOPS] 2027 01:47:04,257 --> 01:47:05,625 [WIND BLOWING] 2028 01:47:35,955 --> 01:47:39,959 [SOFT MUSIC PLAYING]