At that Florida department of corrections facility
in stark, Florida,
the signal has now come
shortly after 7:00 this morning,
eastern time.
The signal came from the witness window
at the facility there that Ted Bundy,
convicted killer of a 12-year-old girl,
rape and murder of her in 1978,
had died in the electric chair.
Many of those outside the prison who had maintained a vigil
broke into cheers
following the signal that Bundy was dead.
After exhausting
a series of appeals that lasted 10 years,
Ted Bundy is dead.
If it was...
Something I could use, I would use it.
I would learn their routine...
When they got home from work,
how often they went out to dinner,
how often they ordered takeout.
If they had a boyfriend, when would he stop by?
Did she have a dog? Did it bark?
Those are the things I would learn.
Then on the night of the full moon,
I would make my approach.
The full moon is key.
You show a woman a badge at night,
know some real details about her,
she'll follow you right to your car.
That's where I would hit her over the head with a tire iron
hidden in the bumper behind the wheel well.
Once she was out, I would drive her out
to a spot I'd picked out weeks before,
secluded, wooded, no traffic,
where no one would see my car.
That's what I would do, if I did it.
But I didn't.
I'm innocent of the crimes for which I've been convicted,
as well as those I'm suspected of.
I'm an innocent man.
I was at Roger's right before Korea
with my first wife.
It wasn't my wife. They buried the pig.
Glad to hear that. We're all here.
And as you all know,
no good deed goes unpunished.
You guys did such a fine job
with the first 36 research interviews.
The deputy director wants another 36.
- Oh, so generous. - So...
We're gonna expand our list
to include serial rapists, child molesters,
and any of the serial murders
we didn't get to the first time around.
So, we put together a tentative wish list.
You guys all know the drill. You volunteer or be volunteered.
First up is berkowitz. Myers.
I got friends on the staff up in attica.
- I'll take a run at him. - Take it.
Sounds good. Bittaker.
I'll take bittaker. Worked the guy before.
You got some family in California,
- don't you? - Yeah, Cali boy.
I saw your hand shoot up there really quick.
You j... you just want to go to California. Alright.
- Got your number, bud. - Alright.
Hold on here. Bundy.
No one's taking that.
- No. - Anyone.
No way.
Yeah, I'll take him.
Don't waste your time, bro. He won't talk to you.
He hates feds. He won't talk to any of us.
I can always give it a shot.
- Yeah, give it a shot. - I've been fortunate in the past
with developing informants that nobody thought would talk.
We're all familiar with your record.
So why don't you meet with me after the meeting,
and we'll discuss this, okay?
Yes, sir.
Look, Roger, I don't want to buck.
I'm the new guy here.
I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
He's not gonna confess to anything,
but even the simplest thing, it might slip through.
Look, there are families out there looking for answers,
and if we can provide closure for just one,
it'll be worthwhile.
Alright.
I'll have them pull the files for you.
Oh, um...
Just the biography,
not the crime scene photos.
Hagmaier.
Hey, bill. It's will.
I reached out to the warden
about getting you into that interview.
- Did you talk to him? - Yeah, I did.
Bundy wants you to write him a letter.
Write him a what?!
A letter. Who knows with this guy.
Can you get it done by tomorrow?
Yeah, sure.
- I can do that. - Great.
You get it to me. I'll get it to Bundy.
Yeah. Alright.
- Thanks, will. - Yeah.
Agent bill hagmaier.
- Sign here. - Mm-hmm.
You've got to check your weapon.
Okay.
Agent, he's not gonna talk to you.
He hates the feds.
We've exchanged letters.
He has expressed interest.
Oh.
Yeah. I need you to talk to Bundy.
I have an agent, uh...
- Hagmaier. - Agent hagmaier.
Says he wants to talk to him or something.
Yeah. No, that's what I said.
Okay. Call me back.
A while back, a TV network offered him $50,000
to do a special.
He turned them down.
So, he's not going to do something like this for free.
Yeah.
Well, put him on.
I don't give a good god damn what he's doing.
Put him on the phone.
Yeah, Bundy. Are you sure about this?
Because I don't want any goddamn bullshit
splattering on my desk over it.
You'd think you're smarter than him.
You think you're gonna be the one
that's gonna get him to confess?
I don't think I'm smarter, sir.
I don't think you necessarily have to be smarter.
This is what's going to happen, agent hagmaier.
Ted Bundy will come down.
He'll toy with you for a little while.
He will cat and mouse with you.
He will make you think you are getting somewhere.
Then he's gonna leave you there,
go back to his cell,
and jerk off at the memory.
Well, at least that'll give me something to write about.
You know the drill.
Well, say something.
You came to talk to me,
Mr. Bundy, I'm special agent hagmaier.
I know who you are.
Well, I'm grateful
for you to take the time to see me today.
We're compiling a series of interviews
to try to find common threads
in the way that people think,
and we're finding it... Very helpful to get an idea
of what people in your...
Situation...
Well, what their childhoods were like,
what brings out their aggression,
what makes them angry?
My situation?
Your situation is quite unique
in that you also have, from what I understand,
an interest in the psychology of serial murderers.
I do.
You've been writing to an investigator up in Seattle.
Uh, yes.
You mean the green river thing?
Yeah, that's a really interesting case.
I don't have, uh, access to everything,
but I-I've started to piece some things together.
And that thought process is why I wanted to speak with you.
Not, it isn't.
Th-this is purely academic.
I know this is.
You FBI guys, you're all the same.
You think you're better than me.
You're all just hoover disciples
riding through on your high horses,
thinking you've got the biggest brains in the room.
If you're so smart, why aren't you bagging
serial killers left and right?
Why doesn't witness protection actually work?
If you testify, we'll Grant you immunity,
and you can go into witness protection.
Live out your life in a quaint small town.
But it never works. They always get killed.
- You can't protect them. - Well, witness protection is...
You are liars in cheap suits on government salaries,
and everything is an elaborate trap with you,
all so you can retire on a pension
- and write your damn book. - Look, I'm just...
No, no, no! You... Sell that to the tourists.
You can never trust an FBI man.
Not for a goddamn minute.
Mr. Bundy... Is this meeting over?
No, sir, we were just getting started.
Mr. Hagmaier, is this meeting over?
No, no, we're just having a...
Friendly conversation on the state of the bureau.
If you get up and put your fingers in his face again,
you won't be using them for a year.
Yes, sir.
You could've buried me there.
Do you know what they would have done to me?
Yeah, I have a pretty good idea.
Look, I don't want to get you on anything.
I'm not even gonna ask if you killed anybody.
It doesn't matter to me.
W-Why would you want to talk to me specifically?
Look, we both have psychology degrees.
You almost have a law degree.
You have more education than I do.
I know the guys on the row come to you looking for advice.
And you help them with their appeals.
We trust you. They tell you things.
I'm not gonna ask you anyone's secrets.
I-I just...
I just want to recruit you to help me see
if we're going down the right road on this.
Are we asking the right questions?
Are we looking at the right people?
I'm not here looking for evidence.
I'm looking for understanding.
I don't know what you know.
I don't see what you see.
I don't hear what you hear.
I don't think you'd tell me the truth,
even if I did ask you.
I'm just... I got to start somewhere.
Why do they send you down here?
Why didn't they bring the prima Donnas in?
Why didn't they send in Montgomery or Douglas?
Well, they didn't even think you'd talk to us.
- Why, because I had feds? - Yeah.
I don't know where they get that idea about me.
I'll tell you what.
I bet they think they would do a better job than you.
I bet you're right about that. I'm just the rookie.
So, this is what I get from the FBI, huh?
A god damn rookie.
Let me ask you something.
Shoot.
What do you think about this thing...
The ******* and violent crime?
I read dietz's article about it.
- Which one? - The one from the bsu.
How do you know about that?
Where'd you get all this?
These are FBI bulletins. Even I don't have some of this.
It's some pretty heavy reading material.
I'm impressed.
Do you have playboys, too.
That's what the scrum have.
I-I-I didn't mean to imply...
Do you really think playboy makes people do these things?
- No. - Neither do I.
I'll tell you what the real bad ******* is.
The marriage of pleasure with the thrill of control.
The real danger isn't
watching a woman get undressed or reading a playboy.
It's someone having the euphoric feeling of having ***
and hurting someone at the same time,
like in the detective magazines.
The ones with the girls on the front covers
with their breasts falling out of their dress
while someone garrots them from behind.
"Read the true story of one killer's obsession."
Exactly.
You know what those are really good for, though?
- What? - Learning how not to get caught.
I imagine they would be.
They are instruction manuals on how to get away with it.
So, did you read a lot of those growing up?
No, no, I never read them.
So how did you end up in the FBI?
I think we should focus on...
- On me? - Yeah.
You asked me to trust you, bill.
But I don't know you from Adam.
I ended up in the FBI by accident.
Oh, bullshit.
You've got to have a degree. What's you get it for?
I wanted to be a guidance counselor.
Oh, no. No way.
Seriously. A guidance counselor.
How does a guidance counselor end up in the FBI?
Two weeks after I graduated, I was drafted.
- You want to 'nam? - No.
No, my brother was over there and had just been shot.
That bullet spared me from having to go over.
So, what did you do?
I ended up as a counselor at a military prison.
And someone there was a serial killer.
A few.
Did you counsel them?
Some.
I bet you never wanted for a thing in your life.
What did your dad do?
Investment banking, upper management.
Mailman.
Happy childhood?
No.
Were you close to him?
He was a drunk.
Okay.
Moving on.
Once you got in the FBI,
you chased a job in the bsu?
No, I was recommended.
Like I said, I ended up here by accident.
You broke a big case.
I contributed.
Serial killer?
No.
No, I-I developed a ci on an armored car robbery
that no one thought would talk.
He gave us everything we needed.
- That New York thing. - Yeah.
Oh!
That is the biggest armored car heist in history.
I've read about you. You're no rookie.
You're some hotshot young upstart,
and I'm your next big case.
You're gonna be the guy who broke me.
- No. - Come on.
You can't bullshit a bullshitter.
I'm not. I'm a scientist.
I-I just want to understand.
Oh, you want to understand.
Well, I'll tell you...
You and your colleagues out there...
The investigators, the detectives,
you're like fisherman out on the water.
You throw your bait in.
You're trying to catch your fish.
The smaller fish,
the inexperienced ones,
the ones who are still driven by their ego,
well, they're gonna fight for that.
They're gonna swim up, and they're going to try
and get that hook.
They don't know it's a hook because they're stupid.
They're arrogant.
And you'll... you'll catch a lot of those fish,
but occasionally,
your bait will sink a little lower,
to the middle level,
and that's where the medium-sized fish are.
And they're hard to catch.
You only catch them when they're lazy
or their egos get the better of them.
You get them. You pull them up.
You mount them on your wall.
You get you press conference. You write your book.
But deep down...
In the deepest depths of the sea,
is where the biggest fish are.
And you have no idea how big they are.
You have no idea how long they've been down there.
They see everything.
They watch everything.
Sometimes, they eat the smaller fish.
But they don't take the bait.
The only way you can catch them
is to become one of them.
And you can't do that.
You won't do that.
Not yet.
Maybe someday...
If I can trust you...
I'll take you under the water with me.
You can see how deep all this goes.
Mr. Bundy, it's time.
- We're done anyway. - Would you like me to come back
to continue this conversation?
Ah, we'll see.
Maybe I'll write you a letter or something.
Oh, but if you do come back...
Could you bring me some gum?
- Well, that's contraband, - yeah, I know.
The wrappers.
Look, maybe you can talk to the warden.
I'll see what I can do.
So, did you get anything we could use?
No.
But I got a pretty good read on them.
Yeah.
You think he's capable of all the other murders
he's suspected of?
Oh, he's... He's guilty, alright.
- He all but admitted it to me. - You're kidding me.
He wouldn't say he did it.
He won't. Not yet.
But he wanted me to know he did it.
He's proud...
Proud of what he's done,
but even more so that we can't prove it.
What do you think he wants?
Well, he says he wants me to bring down case files
so he can help profile.
What do you say?
I say it's more complicated than that.
I think you should keep pulling at that thread
and see what's at the other end of it.
Okay.
Man, how many times do I have to tell you?
I've got nothing else to say.
Here you go, bill.
Thanks, Tom.
Hello.
- You remembered? - I did.
The warden was very particular about the wrappers,
but since you played nice last time,
he made an exception.
Spearmint.
How'd you know it was my favorite?
I didn't.
Hmm.
That is very good.
So, tell me, what's the, uh, tape recorder for?
I thought we'd talk about some cases.
And you need a tape recorder for that?
Well, you have a unique window into this world,
and there's a good chance you'll say a great many things
that I'd like a record of.
Okay.
- But if I say shut it off. - It goes off.
Well, press record,
and let's get this party started.
I'm gonna save this.
It is February 13, 1986.
This is agent bill hagmaier.
I'm sitting with Theodore...
No, Ted.
I'm sitting with Ted Bundy.
Where do you wanna start?
Uh, I thought we'd start with green river.
I feel like there's something
I could add to the investigation.
I understand why they can't show me pictures or tell me things,
but if I could just see some of those crime scene photos,
I think it would be something of a revelation.
I could see some of the changes
that this guy was going through,
at least on a superficial level.
Superficial?
This is a person that we're looking for here,
assuming that it's just one person.
This is a living, breathing, viable human being,
who's just going about his life
in a way that makes sense to him.
He isn't some kind of monster
because he wasn't at the beginning.
He's sick, demented, sure.
But... when you start using jargon like that,
those impassioned terms,
you forget that there's a lot of him that in you.
I don't know about that.
There is nothing that this guy has thought
that you haven't thought at one time or another.
What, he's just...
Taking it a step further for one reason or another.
Well, sure.
They're crediting him with 36 now.
And yet, he's still avoided detection,
even with a vulnerable victim class like prostitutes.
Not a real high-risk crime for the offender.
Still bold as hell.
I'm amazed at some of his crassness and luck,
going back to the same area,
even while all hell was breaking loose.
All of the girls being
fully aware of what was going on,
he still managed to get victims,
and then he just stops?
Now, do you think a person like that can just stop?
It's unlikely, though, if he did,
maybe he was exhausted.
Exhausted?
Do you have any idea
what a spree like this would take out of you?
It's...
Too big a bite, man. Too big a bite.
- I can't even begin to imagine. - Yes, you can.
Do you think I don't know why you're asking me
about this stuff?
What do you mean?
About the murders in the pacific northwest,
well, you said in your letters
that you wanted to discuss the green river case?
Do you want to ask me about, um, Utah next,
or Florida or Idaho.
- What's in Idaho? - I'm just naming states.
Look, I-I'm here to talk to you
about anything you'd like to talk about.
Do you think there's a point in a person's progression
where they... they say, "this is my life's work.
This is what I need to do"?
Or do you think it's a gradual escalation?
You know, it's gradual.
It's like a... a skier
who has been dreaming about skiing their whole life.
They read the magazines.
They watch the movies about skiing.
They think about it all the time.
And one day, they just say, "I got to try that."
Right, and some people will start on the very steep hill,
and some will start on the bunny slope.
Some people take lessons.
What's your thumbnail sketch of the guy?
Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say how old he is
or anything like that, but...
He's either unemployed or works part time.
Um...
Based on the frequency of his killing,
the fact that his victims
were taken every single night of the week...
indicates that he doesn't really have
much of a schedule to adhere to.
Well, he's not married.
Probably doesn't have a steady girlfriend
or anything that puts regular demands on his time.
That's some solid profiling,
and you did that just with some newspaper clippings.
Will you turn the tape off?
You know they think I'm crazy.
I'm tired of people saying I'm crazy.
I'm tired of reading psychiatrists
and some of your FBI prima Donnas say
that you have to have some sort of complex
in order to kill people.
Normal people kill people.
Say...
What's the worst thing that you remember about your father?
What do you mean?
Well, you told me you hated him.
What's the worst thing you remember?
Our house had a basement.
It was the only place to play when my dad got home from work.
He like quiet while he watched the shows.
One summer, a rat moved into the basement.
I could hear it constantly.
Always chewing.
Always scratching.
It attacked me once.
Darn thing bit me.
I ran upstairs crying,
my dad, he didn't like me interrupting his shows,
so he... he got up and grabbed a baseball bat.
He hit you?
No.
No, he went down the stairs.
I could hear him cursing through the floor,
and he battered the basement.
A few minutes later, he came upstairs,
bat covered in blood, lean it against this chair,
went back to his beer.
Told me to go downstairs to clean it.
I went down there and...
The worst thing wasn't the blood or that smashed rat.
It was the silence.
I-I couldn't hear the rat anymore.
I couldn't hear the scratching or the chewing.
Any time I went down there after that, it was quiet.
I-I stopped going down there after that.
You missed the rat.
Yeah, I guess.
Do you think you could kill somebody?
I think you could.
Well, I'm an FBI agent.
I carry a gun, got a badge.
That's not what I'm saying.
Every morning, I say a prayer.
I put on my gun and my badge,
and I ask god for the strength and wisdom
to know when to pull the trigger
and not one second sooner and not one second later.
That's not what I'm asking, either.
Could you kill somebody?
Yeah, I could.
And I could get away with it to.
I'm at least as strong as you.
Probably like *** as much as you do.
I know how to dispose of a body,
how not to be noticed,
how to get in and out and leave a scene looking
like it belongs to a series of other murderers.
But that's not who I am.
I wouldn't do that.
But you could do it.
Yeah. Yeah, I could.
Are you crazy?
I don't think so.
Well, neither am I.
You understand that?
I understood that the first moment I walked in here.
You're already better at your job
than most of the guys you work with.
They all think I'm looney tunes.
I hear he's sending you letters
pretty regularly.
He likes to talk, likes to be heard.
Just how close are you two getting?
What is that supposed to mean?
I mean, I hear rumors.
Watch yourself.
When you get too close to a guy like this,
you can lose your way.
Okay. Okay.
So then the teacher says, "it's imagination time.
Today, we're gonna pretend to be like animals."
And so she goes, "little susie, what is a lion like?"
And little susie rears up and slashes a paw forward
and goes rawr!
She's like, "that's great, little susie."
So then she's like, "Billy, what is a Turkey like?"
And he flaps his wings all around the room.
Gobble! Gobble! Gobble! Gobble! Gobble! Gobble!
And then she gets to Brian, and she says, "Brian,
what is an elephant like?"
And Brian stops.
He thinks about it for a second,
and he stands up,
and he drops his britches and drawers right then and there
and starts crab walking around the room,
going, "brr, I'm an elephant!
Brr!"
- Wait, how old was he? - 4.
Did you get the call, or did your wife?
It was her. She was not happy.
Jesus, your son sounds like a hoot.
Oh, he's a good kid.
He's got to be, what,
six months or so older than Rosa.
- How old's your boy now? - 5.
That sounds about right.
What do you imagine they're doing right now?
You know, while their daddies talk murder.
I haven't seen her.
I don't, uh...
I don't know what she does.
I like to imagine that she's got a nice Dollhouse,
but she goes out riding her bike.
But then I also hope that she's careful, you know?
A lot of dangerous men in the world.
Too many.
Do you have a picture?
She's beautiful.
She takes after her mother,
have you seen her mother recently?
Not in a few months.
I miss the hell out of them.
- Rosa's getting to that age. - That age?
When she understands what people say about me.
Yeah, well, how do you even explain that to a child?
How do you explain that to an adult?
Full grown adults walk around that don't understand
that they shouldn't believe
everything that they hear in the press.
How can you expect a 4 year old to?
Does your son know what you do?
He knows his daddy protects people.
Well...
Rose's daddy...
Well, he doesn't.
Did you get that letter I sent.
The latest one?
Is that the one about the girl
- who sends you the pictures? - Yeah.
I mean, a lot of women send photographs.
Well, not like these.
No.
I don't know where you would go
to get something like these developed.
The wall of your cell must be quite a sight to see.
Oh, I don't keep them.
No, I trade them to other inmates for favors,
- commissary and the like. - You don't like them?
I always know there will be more in the next day's mail.
Turn the tape off.
I don't think I can do this anymore.
Why not?
I...
You're getting inside my head,
I don't like people being inside my head.
- I'm not inside your head. - You're so full of it.
- No... - I bet you think you know
what I would do if I broke out of this place.
- I don't. - Yeah, but you do.
I bet you think you do.
Tell me.
Tell me what you think I would do
if I broke out of this place.
Well, the first thing you would do is steal a car.
Then you'd probably head up to the state of Washington.
You'd probably remove a couple of people
- that are under your skin now. - Yeah. Who?
Maybe a... an investigator
that's pissing you off.
Not returning the letters.
Maybe a journalist
who's been...
Unkind.
Then there's somebody else. I don't know.
A guy you think is having *** with your wife.
Then you'd steal another car,
slip over the border into Canada,
and never, ever come out.
We'd never hear from you ever again.
**** you!
You can turn the tape back on.
A-Are you sure?
I wouldn't know what else to do with my time.
You could write another book.
Oh, never again.
That didn't work out.
It was a bestseller
we did correctly anticipate
the baser desires of the book-buying public.
They do want to be titillated.
There were people who read that for genuine reasons,
- but they were misled. - How so?
Well, it's a funny thing when money gets involved,
and people do things for money that they ordinarily wouldn't.
And those guys, they wanted me to talk about things
that I was suspected of,
and I was like, "I can't do that.
All I can do is speculate."
Anybody who read those books
knows nothing about me or what actually happened.
Well, there are other people who wrote books
who knew you before any alleged criminal activity,
and they felt they knew you.
- You mean Ann rule? - Do you remember her?
Vividly.
In her own way, she's a very nice person.
All we did was share shifts at call-in crisis center.
We never saw each other socially.
My former fiancee,
girlfriend, friend, what have you, Liz,
she wrote a book about me.
She had a far, far better opportunity
to get to know me.
Better than Diane Edwards?
Diane is a lovely person.
But we were only just friends.
We never lived together.
Now, Liz, she saw me day in and day out for years.
Well, Diane is referred to
as someone you cared very deeply for.
There are a lot of theories about me
that are just a bunch of bull crap.
Well, people think that Diana and I broke up,
and somehow this was the...
Traumatic episode in my life that made me go over the edge.
But...
It's simply not true.
It's completely untrue.
I know in my heart
that that episode was not important.
Now you have Liz, friends, family, relatives...
They're all reexamining our relationships.
You know, they're...
"Did I see it coming? Could I have stopped it?"
You know how it is.
I saw it in him when he was 5 years old.
People, they don't want to feel fooled.
You know, there's, "oh, I knew he had it in him
when he wouldn't open the door for me one time,"
- that sort of thing. - Yeah, you kicked a cat.
Yeah, I kicked a cat, and one time,
I jumped up out from behind the bushes to scare Ann.
Well, who hasn't done that?
And one time, it was that I...
I-I walked along the railroad tracks
to see how long I could go without falling off.
I mean, come on.
It's ridiculous. Give me a break.
Jumping out from the bushes was never my thing anyway.
There are a lot of myths and misunderstandings about me.
Like you're a... A master of disguise.
Oh, my god. Yes, yes.
Just half a dozen photographs of my many faces.
But they were all taken within a 10-year period.
They had my graduation photo from '65
and my arrest photo from '75.
If you grow a beard, say, just innocently grow a beard
or you come in...
In a different mood, wearing a different expression,
people are gonna think you look like a different person.
But this is the myth that they wanted to tell,
the master of disguise.
But when you were caught,
you had to tell the police who you were,
even though you were on the FBI's top-10 list.
I told them. They didn't believe me.
When you were a fugitive, did that list have
any bearing on the way he behaved,
my manner of survival, yeah, yeah.
But to be honest... And I don't mean
to insult your intelligence or anything...
But I don't think you all catch anybody.
Not really.
I mean, there are exceptions, certainly, but...
I think most guys get themselves caught.
Well, do you think sometimes
they want to get caught?
I never wanted to be caught.
I know that's a top-tier theory,
but it's more pop psychology crap.
No, the truth is, is that nobody looks at those things.
Nobody keeps their eyes peeled all day long,
looking for somebody that they saw on a "most wanted" picture.
Even cops, they walk around.
They don't believe that they're ever gonna run into that person.
So all you have to do is
go about your day, don't act weird,
and everyone thinks you're just a regular guy.
I imagine that's how serial killers
get their victims, as well.
I imagine it is, too.
You know, we should write a book.
You just said...
No, no, no, not about me.
About profiling.
We could call it "the bill and Ted show,"
I'm not writing a book. Not with you.
- Not with anybody. - Why not?
Well, then I'd just be like all the other prima Donnas, right?
Yeah, but think about what it could do for your career.
My career's fine.
You know, if things were different,
I could be sitting in that chair.
I could do what you do.
I have no doubt about that.
And if things were different,
you could be out there...
Trolling the streets,
looking for the right girl.
And getting to know her habits,
how she does her hair.
Which shoulder she slings her purse over.
Does she bite her nails?
You could be that guy.
If things were different.
The U.S. supreme court today
said no to mass murder Theodore Bundy.
The court refused to set aside Bundy's conviction
and his death sentence for the murder
of a 12-year-old Florida girl more than a decade ago.
Boss man wants to see you.
Come on in. Close the door.
What is it?
Governor Martinez signed a death warrant.
How long does he have?
- 60 days? - 7 days.
Seven days.
Can he do that?
It's irregular as hell, but yeah, it's legal.
He's ready to talk.
- He wants the deal? - Yes.
Said he's ready to confess to everything,
but he'll only talk to one person.
Well, it's about time.
You hold his hand, you tell him who to talk to,
go in the room, be in there,
make sure he talks instead of playing his games.
We've got seven days to close god knows how many cases
and put these girls and their families to rest.
Yeah, yeah.
That I can do.
We meet on democracy's front porch,
a good place to talk as neighbors and as friends.
For this is a day when our nation is made whole,
when our differences, for a moment, are suspended.
And my first act as president is a prayer.
I ask you to bow your heads:
Heavenly father, we bow our heads
and thank you for your love.
Accept our thanks for the peace that yields this day
and the shared faith that makes its continuance likely.
Make us strong to do your work,
willing to heed and hear your will...
Thank you.
Well, look, we ran away from the FBI to join the circus.
It's a madhouse here.
We got phones ringing off the hook.
I got inspectors coming from all over the country,
got media camping out across the street.
Now you're showing up to join team Bundy.
No, I'm just here to coordinate.
Yeah, Carolyn's not gonna see it that way.
- Who? - Oh, she's the ringmaster
of barnum, Bailey, and Bundy.
His civil attorney.
What does a civil attorney have to do
- with coordinating interviews? - I don't know.
You figure that out, let me know.
Oh, and also find out why a civil attorney has to visit
their client 80 times in three years.
Okay. We need all signed petitions.
All signed letters. That Tanner letter.
- Let's find it. - Hello.
You be special agent hagmaier.
Mm-hmm. Bill.
Mr. Bundy says good things.
Not exactly sure how to take that.
- As a compliment. - Excuse me.
We're still putting together the schedule.
It was my understanding that I was in charge of the schedule.
Then you were misinformed.
The governor's not gonna stand for any more games.
The governor is the one playing games.
He could've signed the death warrant for 60 days, hell, 30.
He signed it for 7.
He's thinking more about his own reelection
than he is about doing what's right,
and if he wants to play politics, then so can we.
This isn't the time to take
a stand against the death penalty.
This is exactly the time to take a stand against it.
There are people desperate to find out
what happened to their daughters.
- And we need to... - Bill.
It's good to see you again.
I wish it were under different circumstances.
You and me both.
Mr. Bundy, I was just telling Mr. Hagmaier that...
He will be in charge of conducting interviews.
I don't think that's wise.
Well, bill knows most of the guys here.
The ones he doesn't know him by reputation.
There's no one here they'll trust more than him.
Okay. If that's what you want.
- It is. - Okay.
Mr. Hagmaier, you can be excused, and we'll...
Whoa, whoa, whoa. What are you doing?
We still need to brief the investigators.
Not without bill here.
I would like to remind you that he's law enforcement.
Right.
- Right. Look. - Yeah.
I need a moment with bill.
I am not gonna leave you alone with law enfor...
Carolyn.
- Mm-hmm. - I told you.
This is different.
This is bill.
He's my best friend.
Okay.
You know, we're gonna clear out the room and let them...
Let them have it.
Bill, we both knew this day would come.
I'm absolutely certain that you knew more about my activities
and thought processes than I was comfortable with,
more than you ever let on.
How long have you known?
Since the moment you walked in here.
Why didn't you ever say anything?
I didn't have to.
How long have you known that I knew.
Since the first moment you walked in here.
Then why didn't you say anything?
Same reason.
All this... Is it just theater?
Or are you really gonna go through with it?
- Can't it be both? - No, it can't.
The Florida supreme court came back with their ruling tonight,
7-2.
I mean, I have one more appeal with the U.S. supreme court,
but they really mean to kill me.
They really want to kill me.
You think this is funny?
You've been sitting here for eight years.
What do you think they brought you here for?
It's just now starting to sink in?
Y-Yeah. I knew it.
I knew I knew it, but I just now thought about it.
They're going to kill me.
They're going to kill my mother's son.
Maybe they will. Maybe they won't.
Yeah. Yeah, you're right.
Let the bastards try, huh?
Look, you've got to do this. You've got to come clean.
I will. I'm gonna do what I can in a major way.
I'm gonna give them the truth, but in a measured manner.
You can't hold these girls hostage.
Not anymore. That tactic will backfire.
If anyone senses that you're stalling on this, you're cooked.
Oh, no, you're right.
It's time to come clean.
But we still have a couple of cards up our sleeve.
- Like what? - You'll see.
You just focus on making sure the investigators bring
the right material and stay on track.
What's the plan?
There are investigators coming in from Utah,
Colorado, Florida, Idaho,
Idaho? Why Idaho?
I've got a couple surprises for them.
I told you, you can't play games with the governor of Florida.
You're not in any position to extend your life
by giving them some Henry Lee Lucas kind of stuff.
- What are you talking about? - Why Idaho?
Don't worry, Billy. I got us covered.
- I dropped two in Idaho. - "Billy, I got us covered"?
Why would I be happy that you killed two girls in Idaho?
No, you're right. You're right.
But Florida isn't gonna do anything for me.
Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Utah can't do anything for me.
But Idaho...
They're gonna ask for more time.
And they can petition the governor.
- Ted, you cannot... - I'm not stalling.
I'm not playing games.
I'm coming clean. And if that means bringing
other states into the mix, then so be it.
- How many? - Five.
Not how many states. How many girls?
- Am I talking about? - How many did you kill?
That.
Yes, that.
Let's say 30.
Let's say we talk about the real number.
30 is a nice round number.
How many?
I don't know.
What do you mean you don't know?
I didn't keep score, and it gets confusing.
I don't understand what gets so confusing.
I'm not even sure all of them are dead.
There are several girls,
girls that I hit over the head and put in my car.
When I would drag them out to the woods.
They would wake up, sometimes in my arms.
Sometimes when I went back to my car to get my tools.
They all took off into the woods,
and I couldn't find them.
I'd go home.
I'd watch the news, but not a peep.
No news.
So did they run home and change their name,
never to tell anyone what happened,
afraid that I would come back and try again?
Or did they die in those woods? I don't know.
So, it could be more than 30?
Then there are the dry runs.
Dry runs.
There are a lot of girls I stalked,
learned everything about, staked out my spot,
walked up to their door, passed them on the street,
and just walked away.
Why?
Because every time I did this, I asked myself,
am I going to kill this girl?
Sometimes I said no, and I never went back for her.
I didn't understand.
Because the minute I say no and couldn't walk away,
it was the minute I was on the road to being caught.
Diane leach.
I couldn't say no.
She was a mistake.
I should never have killed a 12-year-old girl.
- She was a mistake? - Yes.
- And the others? - Choices.
Can't really call those mistakes, can I?
So 30.
I can for sure admit to 30.
Why am I here, really?
Bill, we've spent a good deal of time together.
Not as much as some of the others.
Yes, but you knew all along,
and you treated me like a human being.
You just wanted to understand.
I still do.
That's why you're here.
Each of the investigators get two hours.
I have a handful of other interviews.
And then when everything is clear,
you and I will sit down and have the conversation
you've wanted this whole time.
What are you going to tell me?
Everything.
What's this... gizmo?
This will pick up everything you're saying
and everything that we're saying over here on the other side.
Well, let's just get it out in the open now.
Mike, I know you have some intense feelings about me.
- No. - Well, you may or you may not,
but if you think I'm bullshitting you,
you tell me.
If I thought you were just gonna...
Jack it around all day, I wouldn't be here.
All right.
I've been sent here to talk to you
about grand junction.
Where?
And vale.
Let's start with bountiful, Utah.
I really need a map for that.
Eugene, Oregon.
And then we'll move on to west linn and in corvallis.
So, where exactly, Mr. Bundy, did you take these girls from?
- Excuse me? - Well, there are a number
of unsolved disappearances in the state of Idaho.
Frankly, sir, we have no idea
which victims are yours.
Is there any need as far as the western slope
of Colorado is concerned,
for us to go back before 1975,
maybe even as far back as '68?
No.
I didn't get to Colorado until '75.
I really need a map for that.
I mean, didn't your office tell you.
Yes, we're trying to get maps down here as soon as possible.
The clock is ticking here, so...
If you want to describe the area,
I know it pretty well.
I could try.
Well, that was a long time ago.
I mean, that was...
There were... a lot...
There were a lot of girls since then.
Did you clean the car afterwards.
I don't remember.
If you were driving 60 miles an hour
traveling south for...
Didn't think there'd be math on this test, did you?
- No, I did not. - No, no, me neither.
You said that was north of pocatello, yeah?
- I don't know its name. - Okay.
But you drowned her there.
No, I drowned her in my hotel room.
I only dumped her body in the river.
And then what did you do...
After you killed her?
I'm trying to work with you here.
I know.
Look...
I think we're getting close to lunch.
Alright. Let's break for lunch.
We'll resume this after.
Y...
You're stalling.
No, I'm lying. There's a difference.
What happened to giving up everything in a major way?
- You didn't see it. - See what?
- He knew her. - What? Bull.
- How could you tell? - I don't know.
I don't know. Something in the way he talked about it.
I don't know. It was in his eyes.
I don't know if they were dating or romantic or whatever,
but he had a relationship with that girl.
Well, I didn't see it.
That's because you weren't sitting across from him.
- You would've if you were. - So, you didn't tell him...
Because I didn't want to tell that guy
that I made love to his dead girlfriend
right before I cut her head clean off.
Jesus.
I'm going to lunch.
Okay. Let's go back to grand junction.
May I ask you something, just briefly.
- Certainly. - Did you know her?
Yes, I did.
I had a feeling. I could just, uh...
Sense the emotion.
Yeah. Well...
It's an emotional thing.
Sure, I know that.
I would appreciate it if you didn't let that
color our conversation here.
I think we should move on to vale.
I still have a few more questions about...
Vale.
You drive back safe.
Yeah.
So, about tomorrow.
- You mean the dobson thing. - What dobson thing?
Some radio preacher, televangelist.
Carolyn set it up.
We said no media
we'll you'll have to talk to Carolyn.
Okay. Can you do me a favor? Put your father on.
Hi.
Yeah, no, it's...
No easier today, no.
Oh, yeah. Comes with the territory, right?
Uh-huh.
Yeah, no, I'm leaving now.
Mm-hmm. I should, uh...
I should go.
Okay. Yes. I will see you soon.
Yeah. Okay.
Okay, yeah.
Yes, got to go. Okay. Bye.
What's the schedule tomorrow?
- You have a very light day. - I mean dobson.
You won't be needed for that.
All of the interviews are supposed to go through me.
All the law enforcement interviews were to be
scheduled through you, and they were.
What the heck are you trying to pull here?
I'm just trying to give my client a chance
to tell his side of the story.
Do you think dobson will petition the government for...
Dr. Dobson is a very well connected man.
- We said no media. - And he knows the rules.
He just wants to talk to him.
Ted will tell him what he wants to hear.
- He wants a poster boy. - And we'll give it to him.
Dr. Dobson, this is special agent bill hagmaier.
- Special agent. - Doctor.
It's good to meet you. I've heard a lot about you.
You're doing the lord's work here.
We've done what we can.
But we still have a lot of investigators
left to squeeze in.
Well, your two hours are counting down.
I won't keep you.
Carolyn, I'm going to check on our setup.
- Mm-hmm. - Get me something to drink.
That was rude.
How long of an interview can he get with all the setup?
The setup doesn't count.
What do you mean it doesn't count?
This is a real production.
You don't just point a camera and shoot.
How long?
We have seven hours blocked.
- Seven hours?! - Correct.
He's guilty.
This won't help anyone.
Excuse me.
You are guilty of killing many women and girls.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Yes, that's true.
Ted, how did it happen?
Take me back.
So much grief, so much sorrow,
so much pain for so many people.
Where did it start?
How did this moment come about?
That's part of the tragedy
of this whole situation,
because I grew up in a wonderful home
with two dedicated and loving parents.
I'm one of five brothers and sisters.
But as a boy,
and I...
And I mean 12, 13...
I encountered,
outside of the home again,
in the local grocery stores,
the local drugstores,
soft core *******.
Soft core,
what people call soft core.
And as I think I explained to you last night, Dr. Dobson,
an anecdote, as boys do,
we would explore the back roads and sideways
and byways of our neighborhood.
And often times, people would dump the garbage
or whatever they were clearing out of their house.
From time to time, we'd come across
old ******** books
of a harder, more explicit,
graphic nature
than what we'd encounter
in, say, your local grocery store.
And this included such things
as detective magazines.
Those involved violence.
Yes, this is something I want to emphasize,
is the... the...
The most damaging kinds of ******* in...
And again, I'm talking from personal experience here,
hard real personal experience,
are those that involve violence, ***ual violence,
because of the wedding of those two forces,
I only know too well,
brings out a behavior that is just...
Too terrible to describe.
We are your sons, and we are your husbands,
and we grew up in regular families.
And ******* can reach out
and snatch a kid out of any house.
It snatched me out of my home
20, 30 years ago.
As good a Christian home...
Were you happy with the interview.
Very.
His message is going to go out to the world
and save untold thousands of lives and souls.
- And the governor? - Is going to love this.
So, you'll talk to him.
The governor was never going to pardon him.
He's a murderer.
But now he can go on to meet the lord
with a clean soul and an unburdened heart.
Thank you for this tremendous experience.
This is going to change lives.
And now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go across the street.
No, we had an agreement. No press!
This is too big.
The world needs to know why
he killed those girls.
It was a pleasure meeting you, bill.
Yeah, hi. It's me.
I need everyone down here asap.
Today in Florida, a notorious serial killer is
sustaining a string of very last-minute confessions.
Ted Bundy is trying to stay his execution,
which is scheduled for tomorrow in the electric chair.
Ted Bundy has now confessed to at least some
of the violent murders he's suspected of,
bringing some measure of relief to the victims families.
Jennifer strother was a co-worker
of Julie Cunningham, a vale ski shop employee.
Bundy has confessed to killing.
Bill. Word?
Bundy's people are calling for a sanity hearing.
Well, that's straight out of the playbook.
Governor will send down his people,
who will find him sane,
as the governor has instructed them to do.
And then, of course, Carolyn will call in her team
of heavy hitters, who will...
They'll find him nuts, whether he is or not.
Whether he is or not.
So, it will come down
to any interviewing law enforcement officials
who spent significant time with him.
You're saying I'm the guy that's actually gonna decide
whether or not he gets the chair.
It's a hell of a thing to put on to a man, but yes.
That's who you want to be president.
Former head of the CIA. That's who you want.
Some one who knows what it's like on the ground.
- Absolutely. Absolutely. - You know?
- Get stuff done. - Get it done. Get it done.
Hey, bill, you've met assistant warden Decker, right?
Yeah, I think we met at the crime in america conference.
I don't remember.
Good evening, everyone.
Ted Bundy has 13 hours to live,
and he is using those hours to try to buy himself more time.
Shortly after 2:30 this afternoon,
a diesel engine that will power tomorrow's execution
arrived at the Florida state prison for testing,
showing the first signs of what is to come.
You said he wanted to do something for the families.
You don't exactly have a lot of time left to do that.
We're still waiting on the court.
Bundy t-shirts for sale.
This one says, "burn, Bundy, burn."
And the vendor says business is good.
I'm not making a lot of money on this.
But I'm getting the message out.
And they say I'm crazy.
The governor isn't gonna call.
This is it, right?
The governor has identified three psychiatrists, good ones.
They're interviewing staff, administrators,
anyone who's come in contact with you
to ask if they've noticed any change
in your behavior over the last week.
Well, that's alright.
They're gonna ask you.
I mean, who have you spent more time with
over the last three days?
And if you tell them that I'm not crazy...
I'll be executed.
That is the likeliest outcome.
I need to make a phone call.
Yeah, you have all the calls...
To my mother.
What the hell do I say to her, bill?
- I don't know how to... - You tell the truth.
You apologize. You say you're sorry.
Write her a letter.
I don't know how to write that, bill.
Alright. Let's work this out.
Here you go.
Well, you're asking me to do something.
Just start with, "dear mom."
Dear...
How long's it been since you've talked to her?
- Three years. - We'll start with that.
You only have a few hours left.
What did you have in mind?
You told me once, when you were ready,
you'd take me under the water.
I did.
So...
where are we going?
I'm, uh...
Pretty tired.
I think I should get some rest
before the morning.
Ted...
You said you wanted to confess,
tell the truth.
You can't get right with god,
holding all that in.
If you consider me a friend...
I'm going to...
Take you somewhere...
That I've never taken anyone before.
And I will do the talking.
She's...
Beautiful.
She's...
Radiant.
And very familiar.
Her dad is sick.
He's, uh...
He's in and out of the hospital.
I hear her talking about it
over a pay phone.
He has heart problems.
I have a badge
that I got in the usual way,
a local police badge.
And tonight...
Full moon.
She looks amazing.
She's exactly like one of the girls from the magazines.
- The detective magazines. - Spitting image.
Walk up to her.
I'm officer Ted,
officer Ted Bundy.
Something's happened.
She goes pale. "What do you mean?"
"Your father's had a heart attack.
I was sent to find you. My car is over this way."
She rushes with me. It all happened so fast.
She doesn't have time to clock the police officer
is picking her up in a Volkswagen.
I open the door for her.
Before she realizes there's no passenger seat, wham!
I hit her in the back of the head
with a tire iron.
She's out.
Isn't she beautiful?
Her dark hair parted down the middle.
Gorgeous.
I want her so bad.
But no.
Not yet.
Stick to the plan. Just a few more miles.
You can do whatever you want.
The air is cold. It's crisp.
Now we're there. We're there.
I drag her out of the car.
I drag her through the woods
to the place I have all picked out.
That spot.
She's lying there in the moonlight.
Her curves, her skin, her blouse.
I can see her curves.
Don't get caught. That's how you don't get caught.
I need my kit. It's in the car.
Back of the wheel well. Get rid of it after I'm done.
Never use the same kit twice. That's you get caught.
You didn't let them catch you with it.
You got to know where to drop it.
And I undress her.
I wrap the garrot around her neck.
And I bend her over.
And I wake her with the smelling salts.
And she wakes, and she screams.
Shhhhhh!
"Please, please, please, don't do this."
Don't cry. Don't cry.
- Just be quiet. - Please, don't do this.
I live out all the fantasies.
I **** her until I...
I've ever dreamed of.
It's just that moment.
I wrap the garrot tighter.
I wring her neck.
I choke her. She's bucking.
She's gasping.
Oh!
I feel her going limp.
And...
I wrap her...
I wrap my arms around her.
And I turn her around.
And I kiss her.
I swallow her last breath whole.
She knows.
She knows...
That it's her last moments on earth.
- And she's mine. - This is it.
This is it.
She's mine.
We went out for food.
But nothing was open this late but a gas station.
Thanks.
So, what'd he tell you?
Special agent.
Governor's team is ready for you now.
Alright.
I think we have everything we need.
- Okay. - Yeah.
Thank you for your time, agent hagmaier.
I failed.
No one could've saved him after what he's done.
Carolyn...
You need to go home to your husband,
go home to your kids, get some sleep?
Has anyone ever told you
that you need to go home to your kids?
I know what people say.
The guards, everyone.
About Ted and I.
People say things.
You want to know what I think about Ted Bundy?
I will tell you. I hate him.
I... I think I hate him more than anybody I've ever hated.
Then why defend him?
Because murder is murder,
and... in the end,
we all have to be accountable for what we've done,
and that includes me as much as it includes Ted,
and it includes you, too,
whether you realize it or not,
you just helped pull the trigger in there.
It's between him and god now.
I just told the truth.
Him and god. Right.
God is what gets you through this?
Goodbye, bill.
"He maketh me to lie down in green pastures."
He leadeth me beside the still waters.
He restoreth my soul.
He leadeth me in the paths of righteousness
for his name's sake.
Yea, though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death,
I will fear no evil: For thou art with me;
"Thy rod and thy staff..."
Look down and give comfort to your son, Ted,
as he prepares to make his final...
Oh, no! No!
In a place where thine...
The lord of hosts.
He is the king of glory.
I can't ****ing hear anything!
♪ And praiseth me ♪
♪ My song shall be... ♪
I wanted to say something.
You know, while I still can.
Thanks for being here,
for being a friend.
Everyone always wanted something from me.
I was a noteworthy client,
or... or... or another brick on their road to salvation
or a name on their cover to sell a book, but...
But you...
All you ever wanted from me was to understand.
And that's all a friend is.
You know, someone who wants to understand.
All they want to believe is that the worst person
in the world got smoked?
You know what? Screw that.
I'm not gonna give the state the satisfaction of killing me.
They can Bury me if they want, but they can't kill me.
You see this pen?!
I can put this in my arm right now.
I can bleed out before anybody gets in here.
I've researched it. I've seen other guys do it.
- I can do it. - You don't think I trust you?
What, you want me to grab that pen
and stop you from killing yourself right now?
I'm not gonna do it.
If that's your plan...
But you wanted to do some good before you went.
And I've done it. I've done all I can.
- You said so yourself. - Not all.
Those families,
they need to know that you died for their daughter.
Each one of them independently is going to believe
that you died for their daughter.
That's why you have to die in the morning.
It's for them.
What's gonna happen to me?
I don't know.
I can't get what I need from here.
What do you mean?
I have been reading this ****ing thing.
I just don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
Well, what we do know is you're going to die in the morning,
and there will be a final judgment.
How am I going to explain all this to god?
There's a thing called remorse,
a thing called repentance.
Salvation has to come from within first.
You're not gonna be able to lie your way out of this one, Ted.
Seven days!
That ****ing governor... He gave me seven days!
It could've been 30. It could've been 60!
I could have had some time to do some good.
I could have had time to figure out how to live.
But that selfish bastard,
he wanted to put a notch on his desk.
"I'm the guy who fried him!" That mother****er!
They want to kill me for their own satisfaction,
all so they can feel better,
but they are not better than me.
They are not better than me!
Why, bill?!
Why did this happen to me?
Wait a minute! Wait a minute!
You're asking me, so I'm gonna tell you right now!
How many of your victims had the opportunity
that you have, huh?!
To prepare for death, to call your mom?
You don't even know how many girls there even were!
All those children!
All those children who died!
They weren't all children. Most of them were women...
They were all somebody's child, Ted!
- Yeah, yeah. - You're somebody's child.
Yeah.
You're pissed at me, aren't you?
Yeah.
Yes, I am.
You think they should kill me, don't you?
You think it's my turn to die.
Frankly, they probably should've done it a long time ago.
I have to pray.
Mr. Hagmaier.
It's time.
Will I see you out there?
Yes.
Did you get what you came here for?
Do you know why I did it?
Because you wanted to.
I hope to see you on the other side.
Could be.
♪ Na na na na, hey hey, goodbye ♪
Florida state prison.
I'm sorry.
He's not available at the moment.
I'll be sure to give the message.
Look, bill.
The warden invited a family down.
- To watch? - Yeah.
And they did a head count.
I was supposed to have a seat.
Florida state prison.
I'm sorry. He's not available at the moment.
I'll be sure to give him the message.
It's the warden's discretion.
He must have a big family.
He does.
I'm sorry.
They're ready for you, Paul.
I got to walk him down.
Can you man the phones?
Yeah.
Florida state prison.
Is Ted Bundy there.
I'm sorry. He's not available at the moment.
When you see him, will you tell him, I smell bacon?!
Hello. Hagmaier residence.
Hey, sport.
Oh, hi, papa. I'm so excited!
I wanted to tell you about this thing that...
That's great, buddy.
That's great.
Is mama around?
There's more.
Like, the pirates have all these swords.
That's wonderful, buddy.
Um, yeah, can you put mama on the phone?